MCCORMICKLOFTS
184 posts
Aug 26, 2004
10:09 PM
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I was pondering some thoughts this evening after reading a variety of posts where visitors repeatedly chimed in to display their disapproval of a controversial topic. It became boldly obvious that controversy sells. Its human nature to be drawn to the "fire" and action. Every night your faces are glued to the TV news stations and what are you watching...death, crime, carnage, political dirt, etc. In looking over the post menu on this web site, this same pattern of human attraction continues, though so many say they are "turned off". The numbers tell a different story.
The hot topic "Birmingham Roller Purchase" (the original color one)...78 posts!
Who's Number One....62 posts
Definition of a Birmingham Roller (started yesterday)...26 posts.
How Do I Know If I Have A Birmingham Roller?..(started today)...13 posts.
And then we have well over a half dozen which have since spawned from them, all on the same topic. Obviously there are more folks who are willing to post to controversial topics than those of general roller interest. Of the dozen or more of really good questions posted, most have only been replied to a few times, the best being 9 for the grizzle question..(color, go figure).
I gather that the only way the mass majority will reply to a post on this board is if it controversial, the same reason all those day-time scripted reality shows are so popular. If is has to do with a real question, or asking for others comments about a unique situation, where are you? I'd like to hear what the best kit you have seen this year is. I'd sure like to hear your suggestions about why a guy can't get his birds to fly. Or how about the various health questions? No comment huh? Or are some of you saving that for the next controversy? Come on guys (and gals), if you can take the time to complain about what you read, take the time to voice your opinion on other topics as well and show you aren't just a complainer. Or when this color thing fades (no pun intended..lol) we will all be staring at empty questions, or waiting for more controversy to rise up so you can post the few times you do so. Fun is what you make it. Lets have some fun guys!
Brian.
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Mother lode lofts
119 posts
Aug 26, 2004
10:28 PM
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Yea Brian it sure came alive I didn't even know all these people were tuned in LOL LOL ,they sure came crawling out of the woodwork thats for sure and would be nice to also see them on the general topic questions. this topic will die down as it allways does.
Scott
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George Ruiz
9 posts
Aug 26, 2004
10:39 PM
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I agree with you Mac no one seems to care about the people just starting that really need the advice that this site is capable of offering
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highroller
19 posts
Aug 27, 2004
5:48 AM
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Excellent post, Brian. I noticed the same trend. I am thankful for the few who responded to my question although I did resort to calling somewhere else for help not knowing it would take up to 3 days to get a response here. Many people were posting several times per day on the "hot topics" so I only had to assume my question was of no interest to them. Lack of response to posts seeking help is going to hurt or turn off the Roller enthusiast much more than these controversial topics will. I totally agree with Brian...when we scan the topics and pop in on the controversies let's not forget to share any knowlege we can on any other area as well.
Dan
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
146 posts
Aug 27, 2004
6:19 AM
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I noticed the same thing as far as the number of recent posts on these "hot" topics. I see the same kind of thing on some of the mail lists as well.
A primary objective I have had for this site is to provide information and support to those in need. While the discussion forum is one way to fulfill this, it becomes dependent on experienced breeders to "give of their time" to answer questions on such a regular basis.
One way to reduce some of the load is to consolidate some of the questions and responses into a FAQ section where information seekers and researchers can lookup and find answers to most of thier questions.
In order to do this, I would have to sift through the topics and edit some questions and responses and post them to this new section. I would then remove the discussion thread. This would help clean up some the pages and make the forum a little easier to navigate around other topics??
What do you think? Tony
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
6:57 AM
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Hey guys, you are all right. As what you would consider a "Color Breeder", I feel a bit ashamed. Please allow me to offer some insight for those on this side of the fence.
When we attempt to chime in with any input, we're contradicted. Why? Is it because we're new to the site, and human nature is to question what one doesn't understand. Or is it simply the "Fight or Flight" response?
If we don't fly competitively, we couldn't possibly know anything about questions related to health or why one is having problems flying their birds. Better that we should try and address why a breeder has a blind homozygous grizzle, because in your eyes, that seems the only area of which we might have a point. Nonetheless, we are still bashed and forced to defend our points of view...just as Brian, Scott, Paul, and Thor do.
Who's right and who's wrong? Nobody reading in this forum will ever be able to make that decision. It is what you say it is guys...a forum in which people with questions can come and try to get valuable information pertaining to a specific topic. However, the competition flyers insist on being on top of everything and countering every post a non-flyer makes. Seems to me, being new to the site, a very one-sided forum.
Tony, I think you should probably just make it clear on your site that it is designed for the serious, take no crap, die hard, competition flyers - and any that dare stray from that path need not apply. That is the message being sent.
It does not now, nor will it ever matter what knowledge a "Color Breeder" brings to this forum, as it will only be contested and twisted or avoided to the point of nullifying the point trying to be made.
To say that this is a bad site would be wrong and unjust. It's a great site for those that are serious competition flyers. And if that's the direction you want to go with it - take it and run. Perhaps you and all the other die hards should simply avoid the color topic altogether (if the forums continue) and let the "Color Breeders" try to help those people with those type of questions. It's clearly not a priority to the competition flyer, but that doesn't mean that it cannot be for someone coming to YOUR site looking for answers.
JR
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Bluesman
33 posts
Aug 27, 2004
7:34 AM
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O.K. This is my last post on this color thing.We have batted this ball back and forth before.Neither side will be convinced as to what the other side is trying to convey to the newcomer.To those of you that claim to be Peserving the Original Birmingham Roller that came from Birmingham my hat is off to you.keep up the good work.Myself I am a So Called Color Breeder but performance is always first in any bird I raise.I have never crossed a color from another Breed but I have worked and will continue to work with all the factors & modifiers in my Rollers that meet the requirments of a True Roller.I personally bought birds from Bill Pensom back in the early 60s.Still have a line of his birds dating back to the 60s.How many on here can say they bought from Pensom himself.
The Pensom Bloodline I have now will blow Smoke over what I got direct from Bill.Why? Selective Breeding.Did Pensom raise & fly Color birds.Yes he did.
Brian you are the only one I have heard that said he had color birds in your loft.You even said you enjoyed watching them roll but you don,t trust them.Have you ever flew any color birds in competition or was you sure the judge wouldn,t see what they were doing because of their color or have you given them a fair chance to prove themself in competition.
Thor has even went as far as saying that Color Breeders should cull all the color birds and do you all a favor.Are we the Color Breeders that much of a threat to the Original Birimham Roller Group? Please tell me what I need to cull from my Pensom bloodline that is not an acceptable color and if you can prove that it wasn,t there I will Cull it.Don,t ask what colors I have as I will not respond to this color thing anymore.Even tho it has been a debate and both sides will go on and enjoy what we do I see we have already turned some away from the Roller Hobby.I will not be a party to anything that would turn even one away from this great hobby anymore.Your Friend in the Roller Hobby.
David Strait
Mountain View Lofts
Where Color is a Plus But Roll is a Must
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Glenn
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
8:06 AM
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Bluesman:
I beg to differ your statement about mr. Pensom.....He did not and I repeat did not raise Opals and stencil's or any other strange or weird colors in his rollers. He did raise Tort's , grizzle's, white's, various shades of red, red check, blue check, black check, spangles, mottles, red bars, dun bars, blue bar, black and silver. And no strange birds were introduced into his line and those are true facts. And so your statement is false, very false about Mr. Pensom.
Glenn
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
8:16 AM
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Well, in defense of David...according to Mr. Pensom the basic colors are Red, Blue, and Dun and all colors are derived from them...so that's false too. Mr. Pensom did if fact have what some of you yahoos would consider pastels, or colored, or mongrels. It's just that back them, you guys didn't know what to call them, but you most likely culled for them. We reject what we don't understand...don't we...
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
8:22 AM
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Glen,
If you are right, which you are not, that Pensom had Spangles and Suns, then he did , in fact have "wierd colors". Dun is Dilute along with Cream, Silver, Khaki, and Yellows. Spangle is a laced bird. You are an idiot and do not know shit about colors.
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Glenn
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
9:27 AM
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Anonymous: (Why is that? To afraid to post you name.)
No reason to get mad, no reason to call me or anybody else names...facts or facts and you and other people are trying to defend what you are doing by crossing other breeds of pigeons on to rollers to get a color. To each his own, people have been doing it for years, I choose not to breed out of them, you choose to. So get a life and move on, just state the fact's, and I may not know a lot about color because I dont breed for color, could care less what color it is if it spins right. And you may not have crossed a different breed to get your colors but someone did before you in the last 20 years (fact). So relax enjoy your birds as I am going to enjoy mine.
Glenn
Breeder of Brimingham rollers not crossed to make colors...(fact)
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
9:34 AM
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Someone also crossed breeds to get your precious Birmingham Mongrels. But I guess after 6 generations, it's no longer an issue...right Paul?
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
9:36 AM
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Glenn,
Better go re-read Brian's post. The "Birmingham Roller" is a crossbreed. And thank you for making my point for me with your infinite stupidity. Remember, beauty fades, dumb is forever.
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
9:41 AM
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Glenn,
The color Reduced, came from the Birmingham Roller (FACT). It was actually used to put that color into Racing Homers (FACT). With all the crap that went into the Birmingham Roller, why can't you admit there in lies the possibility for some of those traits to come back out? With all the inbreeding that you do, heck yeah it's possible.
You can stay in denial, but when it comes down to it, the for-fathers of the Birmingham were nothing more than the same people you bad mouth here for chosing to experiment and breed consist birds that express a certain trait - may it be color or quality. That's up to the breeder. But implying that ALL colors that aren't listed in Pensom's bible were crossed into the breed by people such as I, is a falicy in itself. We're just the by-product of those that started the breed back in England.
Again...you do have a way of proving our points. Please continue...
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
9:42 AM
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Glenn,
The color Reduced, came from the Birmingham Roller (FACT). It was actually used to put that color into Racing Homers (FACT). With all the crap that went into the Birmingham Roller, why can't you admit there in lies the possibility for some of those traits to come back out? With all the inbreeding that you do, heck yeah it's possible.
You can stay in denial, but when it comes down to it, the for-fathers of the Birmingham were nothing more than the same people you bad mouth here for chosing to experiment and breed consistent birds that express a certain trait - may it be color or quality. That's up to the breeder. But implying that ALL colors that aren't listed in Pensom's bible were crossed into the breed by people such as I, is a falicy in itself. We're just the by-product of those that started the breed back in England.
Again...you do have a way of proving our points. Please continue...
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Glenn
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
9:58 AM
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My original comment again is that Pensom did not raise color pigeons IE..Stencils, opals and the like. That is a fact. If you want to say that a spangle is a Laced color so be it. But if I wanted a spangle I would not have to cross another breed of pigeon to get it or cross another breed to get a cream, or a dun, mottle, oddside, white grizzle. Come on guys look at what you are saying, calling people names because you don't like what I have to say. If you have an opal that spins 30' with a hole and you call it a Champion and it produces for you great. Remember you pay the feed bill, so to each is own.....
Glenn
Still a Breeder of Brimingham rollers not crossed to make colors...(fact)
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Mother lode lofts
124 posts
Aug 27, 2004
12:09 PM
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Pensom was a color breeder LOL, Spangle is a lace,the Birmingham Roller isn't a breed, these were allready in the breed (like the crosses has ever been a big secret)Glenn don't even bother with these guys they will make your head spin. Dave S. what happen to those so ever so obvious crosses that you had on your site for sale ? funny that they dropped off of there so quickly once you showed up here. Again I don't care what anyone flys or does but be up front with it. Hey I threw out a litle offer out there,why no bites ?
Scott
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
187 posts
Aug 27, 2004
12:14 PM
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I guess no one read my opening comment...I sure hope you fellas have that much energy for other topics..lol.
JR-you know how to read right? Read my posts, anywhere in the labryinth of posts where I state that one is right and one is wrong? No, I only share information, insight, facts, and of course my opinion. Go back and re read before you toss my name in the hate of the hateful. I bet I have more pigeons of color than you do, in fact the beak count is pushing way over 450 at my house right now, you kind of learn things when you have that many birds and win every show this year. Seriously dude, if you feel the same way afterwards, then I will respect your decision, though I will not agree with it.
David, I have no doubt your birds roll, but how will they stand up to competition? I know of no one with your birds flying comp, and doing well, not to say their isnt. But it appears you sell a bunch of them, so someone somewhere must be. I have flown mine in my comp teams, on occasion. I don't fly comps just to put up a kit and sit back and enjoy everyone in my yard, I do so to win, that is all that matters, and to do so, questionable birds have to be removed, as well as questionable style/quality rollers, regardless of what letters are scribed on their pedigrees. The post that Steve mentioned about what Turner said about his birds was right on the spot. I have seen the exact very same things happen, as well as Randy Gibson has as well. They just don't hold up. Sure they can smoke with the best of them. I had one andalusian this morning just burning up the sky, didn't want to kit too well, but that has become expected. About 1 in 10 can be pushed with hard rolling past their first year...from my experience with the birds I have. Like yourself Dave, I am very knowledgable about genetics and are you willing to admit that dilute, reduced, pale, milky and many odd recessives deminish the character and general mindset and health of a bird? I know the truth, question is will you admit it. What matters the most is that most of the fancy colors in our rollers came from an outside source. If the creators of those birds were diligent in their breeding procedures, and selected for performance, then it sounds like a legit deal to me. Problem is most people who have gray laces, white bars, smokey opals, etc. do not know where the color was developed from, whether it was yesterday or 30 years ago. One guy does it a few years ago and one does it 10 years ago
Does it matter? It was done..crossbreeding to a pure source. I don't care, I know the difference. I have both at my house. I don't advocate one or the other. I advocate breeding for performance, competing, and understanding the present and past history of yours, mine and everyone else's birds, whether you can stand to swallow the truth or not. A great man once said......Open your mind and your ass will follow.
Common sense people, rationalize.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Aug 27, 2004 12:35 PM
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
12:18 PM
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Scott,
What obvious crosses on David's page? All I saw were pure James Turner birds. Isn't he in the NBRC Hall of Fame? I'm looking for under "C" for Campbell, but I ain't seeing anything. Wait a minute...they may have been some of his Pensom line, but that would be impossible as Pensom didn't cross anything. And I hear that David got them directly from him. I give up! Where did they go? Maybe he just decided that they were too good to let go of.
JR
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
12:21 PM
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Brian,
My apologies. You are probably one of the few on this site that offers opinions and a calm, cool, collected sense about you. For including you in with the other, I sincerely apologize. Sometimes my fingers go faster than my thought process.
And I have way less birds than you do, but I choose to keep it that way to focus on quality not quantity. And I'm not bashing you there either.
JR
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Bluesman
34 posts
Aug 27, 2004
12:36 PM
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Glen. Now we are getting somewhere.It has been narrowed down to Stencil & Opal.No mention of the Bronze Pensom worked with either. I will overlook you calling me a Liar for the world to see as it is obvious that you know nothing about Genetics and how Factors & Modifiers work with the 3 Colors.You pretty much summed it up with all the colors,factors & modifiers you said that Bill had.I didn't either untill I started learning about the genetic makeup of rollers.It opened a whole new world for me and I realized how very little I knew.Maybe I am not a color breeder afterall.You pretty much named all the colors & factors.I know I said I wouldn,t say any more on this color thing but I am glad that just the Stencil & Opal is on the hit list.
David Strait
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
190 posts
Aug 27, 2004
12:39 PM
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JR, according to what I was told by the late Doug Brown, who bred roll from color, was that Turner used Racing Homers and Tipplers for a vast majority of his color introductions, which took place a long time ago. If one looks at the colors that made it, they are nearly all Dominants.
Brian.
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
12:43 PM
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Hey Brian,
Why do you bring up "dominants"? Are you talking about phenotypes or genotypes? Here's where I'm at with things. Turner has good birds and he's busted his tail on them. Neither you or I OR David would disagree with that. I'm not going to speak for anyone else or their opinions. I wish James had a PC so he could get on here and back up what his family of birds stand for today.
JR
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
12:57 PM
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Brian and Glenn,
You keep throwing the name James Turner around. His name is in the NBRC Hall of Fame, is yours? He is a past NBRC President, are you? He has won competitions and his birds are still winning today (Jay Yandle flying), are yours? The last time Mr. Turner flew, he won state championship with colored birds and his points totaled more than the second and third place people combined, have you ever done this? Running a great like Turner into the ground makes you feel better doesn't it because of your stupidity and narrow mindedness. Actually, I was told this would happen even before it did because of the politics and "name game" involved with the competition guys. Sure glad I ain't one of them!!
Also, your sladerous comments about David's birds are just about to land you in court. You do not know anything about him or his birds and, therefore cannot call them crossbreeds or mongrels. it would be best to shut up about this.
Scotty, tell you what. I have some birds straight from James Turner and some from David S. You send me a kit of your birds and I will fly them agains my "colored" birds and will see whose is better. If you fly them from your place and we fly from ours, you are liable to use the "my birds are having a bad day" excuse that is so popular with competition guys who lose to colored birds. If we have some of your birds, which you say you just give away, we can fly them in the exact same conditions and make an absolutely unbiased judgment and you can pick the judge. If your birds win, at least we will know who is the best. If our birds win, we can use your culls for fosters. Deal?
Post an email address if you are willing and we can make the arrangements. Unless, that is, you are afraid of losing....
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Bluesman
35 posts
Aug 27, 2004
1:02 PM
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Brian.Yes I will say that it has been known before my time that Brown,Dilute,Reduced,Milky and such is a weaker bird to the extent that they mostly will not hold up over a long haul of Competition Flying.The Stress that the Competition fellows put them thru to induce the roll(and like you said you fly to win)is more than they can withstand.But to the backyard flyer they will stand up to normal flying and will perform just as well as the hard colors.
Sounds like you like rollers as much as me.400+
No I do not sell many birds according to what I raise.A lot never make it past 10 month old.But now I hear that the 5 & 10 footers I have been culling(12 gauge)is just the perfect competition bird.So this fall I am going to back off on my culling some.Myself I won,t put a bird back into the breeder loft unless it has proven it can continue to roll at least 20 feet.And they better be clean rolls.
David Strait
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Glenn
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:03 PM
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Dave S:
If you crossed a different breed to get a color it's no longer a roller.......it's a cross....if that is what you are doing, so be it....but to call Pensom a color breeder you are wrong...I did not call you a liar, you are calling yourself one. Breed your birds and have fun.....Glenn
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:07 PM
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Glenn,
Shut your damn mouth!!!
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:11 PM
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Glenn,
You're an idiot! David doesn't cross his birds. He doesn't own any other breeds!!! Unless a common comes in out of nowhere while his birds are flying, and knocks one of them up in mid air...it just don't happen! Are you that set in your pea-brained mind? Do me a favor. Call up James Turner, Jay Yandle, or better yet Bob Baxter and once you're through getting your butt chewed, post the results in a new thread for all to enjoy!
Once again...David Strait of Mountainview Lofts does not, nor has he ever bred a cross breed PERIOD!
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:13 PM
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Glenn,
Better not open that mouth again or I'll go through you like fear through the French army.
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glenn
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:15 PM
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Why should I? Because you say so.....I don't thimk so. Because I respect Tony I won't say what really needs to be said whoever you are. If you cross the birds to get color, what are they?.....crosses......plain and simple. And if your birds are that good put them up and fly them. I live in los Angeles, ca. Let's have a flyoff, My kit is moulting and the birds are off form, but will put you color pigeons to shame.......Glenn
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:18 PM
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Glenn,
You don't want any part of me, big boy. I have colored birds that will roll circles around your Birmingham Mongrel Creossbreeds. We have already established that the Birmingham Roller, along with nearly every other breed inexistence today, is basically a crossbreed. Do you get on here and read anything or did you just come to look at the pretty pictures.
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Glenn
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:19 PM
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Then put up your kit..lets fly...Glenn
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:22 PM
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Glenn,
Seriously, give old Turner, Yandle, and Baxter a call. I dare ya! You seem to be carrying this idea that because we have birds that not only out perform yours, but also look a heck of a lot better, that they're all F1 crosses. In idiot terms for you, that hasn't expressed any knowledge of genetics, that's a first generation cross (a true half breed). Not denying the fact that people have crossed birds, that does not apply to what we are discussing in our colors.
Give them boys a call and let me hear back from ya!
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Glenn
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:22 PM
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When? Glenn
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:23 PM
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Glenn will be seriously humiliated when our "mongrels" whip his "pure Birminghams" asses and then eat them for lunch!! LMAO
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Glenn
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:24 PM
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When do you want to fly? Glenn
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:27 PM
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I fly mine every day. Sure is a lovely day out...
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:27 PM
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Anon - I'll be up at your place next weekend, sure would be cool if Glenn showed up!
JR
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:29 PM
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JR,
Thank you I look forward to our delightful meeting. I don't think Glenn wants to show up with his birds as the local Barn Pigeons have been getting frisky lately.
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:30 PM
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The Barn Pigeons can't catch my Rollers but your plain old Blue Checks will fit right in.
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:30 PM
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That sounds great! I've got some blue-bars and blue-checks that I haven't had the heart to pull heads on. I'll just bring them up and let them start a new life. Sure hope they're accepted into the common crowd.
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glenn
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:30 PM
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where?
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:31 PM
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Glenn,
We are in Birmingham England. You turn left at the first barn and you will find our qualint little village there but, please don't wear red.
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Glenn
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:37 PM
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No Balls...no problem...Fly offer still on the table later, Glenn
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Mother lode lofts
125 posts
Aug 27, 2004
1:43 PM
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yea I'm going to send you my A team LOL,and then I'm going to allow color birds on the property, get real. The challange is out there and it's simple and real. As for whoever talking court and liable. LOL LOL LOL. and still see hiding behind the anonymous I see.
Scott Campbell
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Aug 27, 2004 1:44 PM
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Steve S.
Guest
Aug 27, 2004
1:44 PM
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Glen E.
Don't worry.
I'll talk to Jay Yandell tonite if he ain't doing his police thing in Thomasville and he will fill me in on who these cyber killers are LOL
Later
Steve
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Phantom1
9 posts
Aug 27, 2004
1:47 PM
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I'm baaaaack! Let me know what Jay says. Still curious on the whole thing.
I think we ALL need to take a Valium! WOW!
How ya been Scott, Brian, Steve-O?
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Mother lode lofts
126 posts
Aug 27, 2004
2:03 PM
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Good Eric how about yourself, good to see you. I'll tell you what I like about Jay and why he has my is respect is that he is up front about what he does. And yes he does color breeding from crosses (or at least did a few years ago). And he doesn't try to distort things around and does what he enjoys doing.
Scott
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
191 posts
Aug 27, 2004
2:12 PM
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Man, you guys are a bunch of, lets say monkeys in a fun barrel...lol But I'm letting my co-workers read this and they seem to be getting a kick out of it. One asked the ages of some of these mad people. You'll thank me as I changed the subject on them. LOL.
I am about done with the redneck, backwardass, inbred country bumpkin mentality that everyone is picking on this or that guy. Put the Red Bull down and slowly back away! Use reason, use reality and keep it discussion.
And, I am done responding to anyone who does not have the balls or the integrity to put a name with their words. I read the word French in one of the above posts. I suppose there may be a bunch of the cowards among us. It is easy to boast abrasive opinions behind a cloak of invisibility. I'm sure the consciously aware and mentally stable gentlemen and women who visit and have posted on these subject understand my offerings, as I do others. David, I would enjoy continuing this conversation with you if you would like, and anyone else, via email. Too many mongrel wolves throwing wood on a fire that has been beat to death already. My email is McCormicklofts@aol.com. I would appreciate it if you are not of sound mind, to simply ignore my post.
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Mother lode lofts
133 posts
Aug 27, 2004
6:03 PM
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Actually Dave in reality 5-10 ft birds would'nt get you far in one of the major fly's as they need to be 10 ft min to score and anything close to 10' is to close to borderline and it's doubful that a decent judge would score them. Personally I also believe that 10-15 is a cull also and I really don't get too excited about a 20 fter Nor do I know of anyone personally that is trying to breed for short birds,they are just to boreing to watch I can assure you that the guys winning these major flys are'nt doing so with 10 - 20 ft birds, for me to put anything in the team that is under 20ft I would have to be scraping birds up from the bottom of the barral due to losses for one reason or another. The A team in place now doesn't have a single bird not capable of doing 25 ft. Not that every time a bird rolls it is going to go that depth But it has the capabilty to do it on a consistant basis and of coarse without the proper qaulity and velocity they have no place in the team and without that depth is a mute point. As for havinging to stress a team to roll. I agree you should'nt have to do it and generally you don't need to except with the stiffest of families. Personally I only breed out of birds that want to roll not birds that you have to make roll. But generally I'll hit them with mild stress procedures such as feed change or darkening the box the evening before the fly. when I say darkning I like very dim not pitch dark but personally I don't like dark kitboxes any other time. You can really rattle them by putting them in a strange kitbox but with a good team you most likely will shoot yourself in the foot by doing this as then you just get birds rolling in a confused manor and can ruin what a good working team is capable of.
Scott Campbell
P.S. In "NO" way is this post meant to be controversal !!!!
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Aug 27, 2004 7:13 PM
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