nicksiders
76 posts
Aug 28, 2004
9:16 AM
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Don't all breeders like all of it? The performance, the style, the shape, and the yes the COLOR. All in varying degrees...........I don't believe in throwing an Ice Pigion in the mix to get a color, but if two black rollers give me a recessive red it makes me happy.
Performance is number one, but I also like shape and color and I try to get all of it. It is part of the pleasure of breeding this great noble birds.
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LEO
Guest
Sep 03, 2004
2:26 PM
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GLEN, You are quite correct about BILL PENSOM.....He was never a color breeder, in fact he prefered solids red cks blue cks etc. He would keep an outstanding yellow on occasion , they never seemed to kit to his liking .As far as his duns and other colors these were part of his fabulous birds..During the early 60s he imported LAVENDERS...not silvers these birds were barless and gorgous to see...BOY could they roll.. I have a few to this day that i preserve. I keep an preserve 5 other familys of his birds. As for the fellow that is unsure of what a Spangle is here is the answer...there is only one the bird is..WHITE BASE WHITE with RED feathers throuout the body NO other colors can be called SPANGLED. The laces an stencils are just that RED LACE BLUE LACE RED STENCIL etc KEEP EM ROLLING
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Anonymous
Guest
Sep 03, 2004
4:08 PM
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Leo,
If you're going to speak of genetic understanding, gain some first. You obviously haven't got a clue as to what you're talking about in terms of color.
Jason
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LEO
Guest
Sep 03, 2004
5:29 PM
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You are right the red feather i refer to should have been called Whole red on white base. Diluted red will be called grizzle ...I hope you are a true pigeon man i would appreciate your name next time ......LEO KEEP EM ROLLING
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Anonymous
Guest
Sep 03, 2004
7:50 PM
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Hey Leo Keep Em Rolling,
First off, my name is Jason as I stated in my last post. Second, Dilute Red is called Yellow or Cream. Also, not reallsy sure what "Whole Red" means. Is that opposed to half Red? Regardless, this subject has been run into thr ground and stirring it up again would be a very bad idea. It would be similar to living in a small village wearing the "bad color". Get it?
JASON
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
218 posts
Sep 03, 2004
8:56 PM
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Leo, dilute red would be called grizzle? Where did you come up with that..lol. As Jason accurately said, dilute red, regardless if it is recessive red or ash red, is called yellow or cream. Whole Red feathers, in this case, refers to the feather being whole in color and void of grizzling or white. That is most commonly referred to as mottling. A spangle is not a genetic factor or modifier, but the result of Tiger Grizzle which creates the mottled (whole color feather next to white feather) effect, like most of us see in a red mottle roller. Most of the flying breeds in the UK have what they call spangle, which is most commonly piebald x tiger grizzle and comes in black, brown, recessive red and the dilutes of each of those. Tiger grizzle largely only effects the body and not the flights or tail, therefore they stay the base color. Tiger grizzle combined with piebald usually produces the white looking bird with whole colored feathers on the shield and neck. It is acceptable that many of the english flying breeds also have a combination of tiger grizzle and undergrizzle which extends the white into the wings and tail, generating a similar 'spangle' effect. Some of you may have some torts in your loft that have both grizzled feathers and whole white or colored feathers. That is tiger grizzle and classic grizzle or undergrizzle being expressed at the same time. I think in rollers we mainly have classic grizzle and undergrizzle due to the lack of true black mottles in any numbers. Tiger grizzle is the only grizzle that can punch through the spread gene and be expressed. Spread inhibits the expression of classic grizzle and undergrizzle, which is why when you mate a recessive red to a black (carrying recessive red), some of the recessive red young molt in white feathers on the shield where as all of the black or blues from that mating do not. But mate a classic grizzled recessive red to a black, and you can get some blacks showing a hint of grizzling, but eventually it goes away after the first molt. Spangles are definitely attractive to have in the kit. I wouldn't mind seeing more of them myself.
Brian.
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redneckhippie15
3 posts
Sep 04, 2004
7:55 AM
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Share some of your knowledge of baldies with me please Brian. I am considering buying a pair,supposed to be from the pensom line. thanks man
rhn15
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redneckhippie*blue dot lofts*
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LEO
Guest
Sep 04, 2004
7:59 AM
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HEY, back off...I simply tried to explain what spangle is in birmingham rollers ......There are spangles in other breeds of pigeons the colors are not the same, I never said one word about genetics to begin with ...JASON.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
221 posts
Sep 04, 2004
3:10 PM
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I guess my question Redneck is what specifically are you seeking to find out? I don't raise baldhead rollers, though I do get some from badge x badge matings. Baldhead is a gene marking and I believe it is the result of homozygous badge. In my Wests which are pure to the baldhead gene as far back as anyone can remember, I have mated a black baldhead to a black self and got only badge marked blacks, which were very attractive. Then took one of those badges from that mating back to a baldhead and got 3 out of 4 baldheads, with the one being a badge. Its just a marking gene and in some families has no bearing on the birds potential performance while in some others the breeders will tell you they tend to run a little hotter. If you like them I would search out some of the guys who have bred a family of baldheads and get some from them as they have developed them to suit their peformance wishes. Might even email Tony as I see he has a fine looking red bar baldhead on the main page of this web site. Good luck and what is your name, kind feel like I am degrading you calling you a redneck..lol.
Brian.
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Anonymous
Guest
Sep 04, 2004
9:02 PM
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HEY Leo....
First off, I understand that this site is intended to be a learning tool and to share information regarding all aspects of the make up of Birmingham Roller. Sorry to set things straight at your expense, but what you wrote could be taken completely out of context be a newcomer - looking for information. Perhaps you're a newcomer, and were only looking for some guidance. Hopefully we were able to help you in some small way....LEO!!!!
Jason
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Anonymous
Guest
Sep 04, 2004
9:17 PM
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Leo,
I am going to ask you a series of questions and I want them answered immediately.
What do you mean by "Whole Red"? Do you mean Recessive red? What do you mean by Spangled? Here is what you said it is:
"WHITE BASE WHITE with RED feathers throuout the body NO other colors can be called SPANGLED."
What is White base White? What do you call Mottled and Tort? What is the difference between Mottle and Spangle?
"The laces an stencils are just that RED LACE BLUE LACE RED STENCIL etc"
What does that mean? Do you even know what Laced mean?
Either way, why don't you just drop the subject. As Jason said, it has been run into the ground already and upset a lot of people and you sound like you are trying to stir up some more problems. JUST DROP IT!!!!
D-Rod
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