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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Another Mistake!
Another Mistake!
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motherlodelofts
95 posts
Jun 20, 2005
2:09 PM
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Sorry to hear that Geo, sounds like it could have been much worse though !!!!!
Scott
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rollerpigeon1963
12 posts
Jun 21, 2005
8:32 PM
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Hey!
No matter how stupid it sounds place a hasp and lock on all your doors. This will save you some heart aches down the road. You think you might never need them but trust me, I hope you don't find out the hard way.
Brian Middaugh
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
305 posts
Jun 22, 2005
3:19 AM
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Geo.You can be sure that the first mistake you make it seems like you will pay for it.Seems like you can lock them up daily and the first time you don,t shut the trap something will happen.I lost my holdover kit 2 years ago to a Mink.Winter time and a lot of snow had piled up where I shoveled my path.It jumped from the pile of snow over to the landing board and killed 16 of the 17 in the kitbox.I had closed this trapdoor for months but left it open that day because the sun was shining in on the birds.Sad part about it I had looked out just before dark and seen it was down and figured everything would be O.K till morning.I still kick myself over this but it makes you think to double check things.
I think it was Brian Middaugh that lost his birds from an open loft door.After this happened to him I have made all my Lofts with a double door system.Sharing experiences is a good way that others might be able to pervent things from happening to them. David
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Sourland
16 posts
Jun 22, 2005
6:34 AM
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Got 22 back out of 26. You're right Scott it could have been a lot worse. This kit is housed in a loft that I bought last year. I had never flown out of this kit box and didn't know that two of the bobs were sprung slightly allowing the birds to squeeze out. Loft is set up with an interior alleyway with doors into the kit boxes and breeding section. I take this as a lesson well learned. I will never! leave my traps open while unattended. Had a Coopers enter through an open trap several years ago and have been pretty good about closing traps since then.
Last Edited by on May 30, 2007 11:57 AM
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Shaun
2 posts
Jun 22, 2005
1:13 PM
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I'm undoubtedly a novice English flyer, but have consumed an awful lot of literature and advice in a very short space of time. Clearly, for every aspect of roller keeping there seem to be so many different ways of achieving the same aim. Even the old English flyers can be poles apart in terms of their preferred methods, so I'm keeping a very open mind and am persuing the trial and error approach, based on my own personal experiences.
When it comes to trapping, flyers in the US seem pretty consistent in their preference, namely, some means of loft opening which enables the birds to enter with the flyer unattended, should that be desirable. You guys will be familiar with the English-style open door method, but have generally deemed it unsuitable. All I can do is offer an observation from my few months of flying.
I might well get around to installing a trap of some sort to allow the odd recalcitrant bird to enter some time after all the others, but alarm bells still ring at the prospect. From this post I see that for every pigeon that can enter through a bob wire or suchlike, there's something undesirable and dangerous that can enter as well.
I like opening a big door and watching the birds all come in, then shutting the door behind them. My loft is a log cabin; I have no worries about anything getting in once that door is shut. If a bird were to come back late, it can sit on the roof or elsewhere until opening time the next day.
If a flyer doesn't have the time (or can't be bothered) to be there when their birds complete their fly, I can appreciate why a trapping device would be the option of choice. However, for those who are around when their birds land on the loft roof and then trap, I can't see the general USA rejection of the open door.
Homer fanciers could potentially have their birds arriving home hours/days apart from a race, so they can't always be there for their arrival back to the loft. A trapping device is, therefore, essential. But rollers coming in from a few blocks away?
Does anyone have anything scientific to offer on this subject other than just vague personal preference?
Thanks.
Shaun
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
30 posts
Jun 22, 2005
1:59 PM
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Shaun, its vague personal preference.
A friend in our club is from England and his set up is "english style". Pretty nice too. Big open barn style doors leading into a room with four kit boxes. Basically kit boxes inside of a kit box, almost similar in some regards to some of the lofts discussed in the above threads.
All of my kit boxes have traps. I trap train my youngsters from day one. But, I usually open door to get them in with the occasional dumb ass that won't come in getting to use the trap. Personally I don't want a bird sitting around all day, milling about the lofts, eating its fill and picking up bad habits, then clinging to the wire as the eve approaches.
If a person is retired, he could manage to spend the time to get a loose bird(s) into an open door system. But most blue collar fanciers don't have the luxury. For the most part here, we are blanketed with predators and a loose bird sitting on the loft in some areas is a prime target for a predator's dinner.
No one can create the perfect system while maintaining absolute control over their birds or the beasts that lurk in the shadows. We can only utilize the system and preferences that we have become accustomed to. I might add, there is something unique about hearing the "cling" of a set of aluminum bobs closing, almost reassuring.
Brian.
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motherlodelofts
103 posts
Jun 22, 2005
2:20 PM
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Traps aren't used so that you can open the door and leave , they are there so that you can take a nap LOL
Traps are convienent for the odd bird that is slow coming in or for when you screw up and over feed and the birds are slow coming in.
I am there when they go out and I am there when they come in, the trap is nothing more than a way for them to enter the kitbox.
Shaun keep in mind that the rest of the Roller world thinks that we do "everything" wrong over here, don't believe everything that you hear.
Have you ran into Dave Mosely over there ??? he's a freind of mine
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jun 22, 2005 3:03 PM
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Slobberknocker
15 posts
Jun 22, 2005
6:26 PM
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I, too, have a couple of birds that have figured out how to come back out of the bobs in the trap after they have gone in. I usually have to wait until the last bird traps so that I can block the trap for the day.
I can see the benefits to having an open door if you have the time and the right set up.
Bob
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
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motherlodelofts
106 posts
Jun 22, 2005
6:49 PM
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Bob put some small L flashing on the inside bottom, they cant hold on and work their way out
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Velo99
19 posts
Jun 22, 2005
7:25 PM
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I use a different approach by employing a 3 1/2 inch flashing for a trap. When the birds are in a hurry,the one behind will peck the slow one on the butt and hurry him up a tad.The only drawback is the birds can only trap one at a time. It is covered with a folding landing board.
No bobs to get loose and nothing can get in that is larger than 3 1/2 inches (cats and hawks). If it does he is gonna fall six feet,then it can`t get out,and its pigeon killing butt is mine.
mtc
v99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Jun 22, 2005 7:26 PM
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Shaun
4 posts
Jun 22, 2005
11:53 PM
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Thanks for the info, guys. I'll continue to keep an open mind on the subject and if a trapping device becomes necessary then so be it.
If I can just quote a section from Graham Dexter's "Winners with Spinners", you'll perhaps see where I'm coming from: "When designing places for the birds to enter the loft, remember having an open door is the easiest, quickest way of getting pigeons in, but in addition to the open doorway, you may require some trap, some kind of device that allows for that one stubborn bird that just refuses to come in".
Scott, I know the names of all the well known English flyers, including Dave, mainly due to my correspondence with Graham Dexter and having read his book. Some of those guys in the book have since died, but many are still around. Whether I get to meet any of them remains to be seen. They all seem to reside between 2 and 3 hundred miles north of where I live, so I can't just pop up on the off-chance I'll catch a few roller guys. It's going to be an ongoing problem, because my neck of the woods is race horse and racing pigeon territory, with no-one I know of keeping rollers.
George Mason is currently breeding me 20 birds which I won't fly, but will breed from next year to then fly their youngsters. I'm hoping to see George and his setup when I go to pick up the youngsters.
It was actually George's mention of him using a sputnik trap, when I chatted to him recently, that made me question the whole "getting the birds in" rigmarole. Mind you, he's recently had a hawk problem, something that England hasn't had to deal with much. But, peregrin falcons are starting to feature in the news as far south as London, near where I am. Hidden cameras are sending out live feed pictures of the newly discovered pair along with their young. We're then informed that 90% of their daily food supply is pigeons. Certainly, the peregrines in London have an ample supply of ferals, but it would appear that some roller guys are getting hit too, if George is anything to go by.
Shaun
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motherlodelofts
110 posts
Jun 23, 2005
6:34 AM
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Shaun Dave Mosely gets hit by falcons, he is somewhere in the Midlands. Dave is an old Tippler flier and when they are really giving him fits he has adapted to flying his birds right at dusk and landing them in the dark
Scott
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Mount Airy Lofts
9 posts
Jun 23, 2005
7:03 AM
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Geo,
I find this to be so in my young birds. I have a small trap door with three bobs. They seem to squeeze out with ease as young birds. Altho once their body matures, it is almost impossible for them to squeeze out.
The small size and high energy these little buggers have propel them easily thru the bobs. Once their body settles into adult hood, it is quite hard for them to do the things they are caple of as a youngster.
Altho lesson learned... we all go thru this. Live and learn.
Thor
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Shaun
5 posts
Jun 23, 2005
1:19 PM
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Scott, I believe George Mason is also a tippler flyer - or at least he was when I read some stuff from a few years back. Given that he's an illustrious roller flyer/breeder, I wouldn't want to upset the guy when I go to pick up the youngsters he's breeding for me. But, at this early stage in my roller career, I really don't get it with tipplers. You let them out, you go to work or whatever, you do some work around the house, you help feed the kids, the dogs, the guinea pigs - and, of course, the rollers, then after a few episodes of Frasier followed by a midnight party, your tipplers have a mind to land. I know the passion for these birds can equal that of rollers but, for those who have seen the dark side, please enlighten me - what are they all about?
Oh, and on a completely different theme but yet with a link to the aforementioned, I have a burning question: I've just bred from a chequer hen and a spangle cock, what can only be described as a Macclesfield tippler (sorry if that means nothing to anyone). I had one 30 years ago (it was called a high flyer back then) and having looked through every picture I can of rollers I haven't seen one at all - which would suggest tippler rather than roller.
Picture it if you can: predominantly white body, grey grizzle head and neck, with very dark wing tips and tail (an absolute beauty, actually). How the hell did I get a Macclesfield high flyer from a pair of rollers which I've definitely seen roll and which don't fly high?
This bird is 4 weeks old and it might take my small kit of George Mason's high up in the sky, when I add it, unless you guys convince me the colouring (that's the English spelling) isn't what I think it is.
Over to you.
Shaun
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motherlodelofts
118 posts
Jun 23, 2005
1:28 PM
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Hard to say, where did the pair come from ? maybe a throwback, maybe a standard colour, don't no.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
34 posts
Jun 23, 2005
1:53 PM
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Shaun, it sounds like what you are referring to is a Stork Marked Tortisehell. I am somewhat familiar with the english translation of Spangle and I would assume your Spangle is homozygous grizzle recessive red. On the blue hen, the result you mentioned is very understandable. I get one every now and then from a dark tort x dark tort mating.
Brian.
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Shaun
7 posts
Jun 24, 2005
12:12 PM
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Thanks, Brian. I should have said red mottle; we tend to reserve 'spangle' for the white bird with the black 'thumb prints', yet we call the same thing with red splodges a mottle. Anyhow, I've looked through dozens of roller pictures and haven't seen anything like my 'Macclesfield'. I'd love to post a picture for you to look at, as you think you may have bred the same type of thing occasionally. Now, we all know we can't talk too much about colour (color) in terms of the true worth of roller, but what a bonny young squeaker this one is.
Shaun
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