Alohazona
18 posts
Jun 19, 2005
2:15 PM
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Aloha all,I was just wondering what you would consder"HOT" in roller familys.Are these rollers that were screaming on fly day?are they rollers that break on the turns and straights as well? or is it an active family with marginal to upper marginal activity,and quality being the same?I guess my take on it would be18 to 30 scoreable breaks in a 20 to 25 minute time frame,and you dont have to do alot to get them that way.What do you consider "HOT"????
ALOHA,Todd
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motherlodelofts
89 posts
Jun 19, 2005
2:22 PM
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Todd , Hot= on the unstable side , it has nothing to do with work rate, depth, ect. You can get this out of stable families also
Although they tend to be very frequent to over frequent, the the problem with over frequent to very frequent is that generally qaulity suffers, but there are no doubt good ones also (at least for a while).
Many of the "hot" family birds tend to come in very early and to kinda peak at a young age and then head down hill, there are exceptions of coarse also.
just my opinion
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jun 19, 2005 2:24 PM
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Slobberknocker
9 posts
Jun 19, 2005
5:34 PM
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Scott,
Great post!!! I am told that some of the Turner birds, because they come into the roll so early, can burn out early as well. Those that do are supposed to peak out at 12 to 18 months but start to back down at 24 months. Not all, but some. This would be something that the breeder would have to cull and breed accordingly.
Again, great post Scott!!!
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
290 posts
Jun 19, 2005
6:08 PM
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What makes a family of rollers Hot? David
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motherlodelofts
91 posts
Jun 19, 2005
6:09 PM
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Instability Dave , Too hot is easy to breed as long as the roll is there , Dave go back to Kennys post on breeding, that was a good one !!!!!!!
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jun 19, 2005 6:36 PM
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motherlodelofts
92 posts
Jun 19, 2005
6:19 PM
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Thanks Bob , you can take a family any direction you want. It is up to the breeder to either make or break the birds. Some just can't help to break them though LOL .
The quikest way to ruin or not forward a family though is to breed for "only" roll and not pay attention to anything else.
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Slobberknocker
10 posts
Jun 20, 2005
5:55 AM
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Well put, Scott!!! We have to breed for the whole package according to what we want from our birds rather than just one part of it.
Bob
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
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Ballrollers
30 posts
Jun 20, 2005
8:44 AM
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Bob, I have not found the Turner family to be "hot" or unstable. Of 65 birds raised so far in '05, none have rolled down yet. I have several going 20+ ft. and lots 10 ft. and very active. One of these bumped twice when landing, but he wised up and hasn't done it since, which is a good sign of mental character. I have been feeding them strong with protein and supplements, but don't know if that is contributing to better control, or whether I have just been lucky with the pairings. On the other hand, I was at Jay Yandle's this weekend and saw his cull kit of 11 rolldowns of 85 he has raised so far. YITS Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Jun 20, 2005 8:46 AM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
292 posts
Jun 20, 2005
10:41 AM
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Scott. I was getting HOT confused with Frequent & depth.David
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motherlodelofts
94 posts
Jun 20, 2005
2:08 PM
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Dave , "hot" is a bird that can't handle or has a hard time handling frequency and depth, when they are to far over the edge you will see it in chronic bumping,rolling down,landing early, not kitting ect.
Scott
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
296 posts
Jun 20, 2005
4:05 PM
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Cliff. I agree with you they are not unstable.However some would call my Qualmonds Hot & Unstable.They are borderline but can still be managed.They are bred tight and I have started backing them off a little.I hope by next breeding season I will have them to where I don,t have to keep such a tight handle on them.But I only need to keep them up for 20 minutes.After that they will be off the clock.LOL. David
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Ballrollers
32 posts
Jun 20, 2005
4:23 PM
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David, I put two qualmonds together from the same family from Don Greene. I had never seen either fly, but was interested to see if they had the goods yours have. So far I haven't been impressed, but the birds are still young. Neither was I impressed by the color produced-sort of a dirty brown qualmond. If they roll, who cares! Cliff
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
299 posts
Jun 20, 2005
7:02 PM
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Cliff.How old are they? Qualmond is different thats for sure.I think they get better looking with age.I like the blue base the best.I like the looks of the Faded Qualmond too but havn't seen any in the air yet.But of coarse if they don,t roll pretty don,t mean a thing.LOL.David
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Alohazona
19 posts
Jun 20, 2005
11:55 PM
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Scott, its funny,unstable is not what I considered "HOT",but given your description its as good of term as any to describe unstable.Scott,my curiosity has got me,what is the term you use to describe;a hardworking,frequent to very frequent[18 to 30 scoreable breaks] group of rollers,performing short[15ft]to medium[25ft]depth?much like I described in my first post.Aloha,Todd
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motherlodelofts
98 posts
Jun 21, 2005
12:23 PM
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Todd as long as they hold up, I would call that a good solid kit.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jun 21, 2005 12:30 PM
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nicksiders
145 posts
Jun 21, 2005
10:45 PM
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Todd - have you got a kit that does that? If you do I hope you are competing......................regurley.
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Ballrollers
33 posts
Jun 22, 2005
7:29 AM
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David, The young qualmonds are only three and four months old. They are off a blue base qualmond cock and a red and blue base qualmond hen. We'll see what developes. Cliff
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
308 posts
Jun 22, 2005
9:59 AM
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Cliff.A few more weeks and they should start cranking.Then you better hold them back untill after the moult.If they are like mine.I only fly mine every other day and keep them fed up.I flew one today back to back and didn,t have any problems with it.I will keep flying it untill I see if it weakens.It is not rolling as hard or often as it was before.Seems like once you get them thru that 4 to 6 week period most will get a handle on things.David
P.S. One other thing I have almost quit mating 2 Qualmonds together.The ones that are mated to different factors/patterns seem to be in much more control.
Last Edited by Bluesman on Jun 22, 2005 10:01 AM
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Alohazona
20 posts
Jun 23, 2005
2:17 AM
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Nick,the World cup came to Hawaii 2 years ago,and the fall fly starting this year,as well as our clubs futurity fly,this year,I fly them all.As for the birds I desscribed in my posts,are whatI would call "HOT"and describes more of what my ideal is,and what I breed for.There were no boasts or hidden claims.Have I seen kits like this,yes I have ,but not in my backyard.But if one has not seen kits like this,how does one breed and train for it,you just cant sit in a chair ,have a beer and think about it.Do I have stock that are taking me in that direction,yes.Did I have that stock last year,no.Did I have outbirds,kitting problems,kit overflys,DQs,last year,yes,this year,no to all of them.Did I win this years regional ,no.Did I find my little diamonds in the rough pair,that can reproduce themselves,Thank,GOD,yes,that was the best thing to come out of this breeding season,Prior to the flys comming to Hawaii,I liked and still do the DEEP performer,as my family of birds are built for it and handle it well,but they will not win the active breaks of competition.Paitience yeilds quality,hopefully I've answered your question,Aloha,Todd
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motherlodelofts
109 posts
Jun 23, 2005
6:27 AM
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Todd, active kits ???
a kit as you described earlier ( 18-30 ) breaks are what I hope for on fly day, the qaulity and depth multipliers can go a long way.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
32 posts
Jun 23, 2005
11:28 AM
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I demand 18-30 breaks in 20 minutes every time I fly my A-team. If they don't, the entire day is shot....LOL.
Brian.
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motherlodelofts
115 posts
Jun 23, 2005
11:52 AM
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Yea Brian LOL LOL
We fly the state fly this weekend and boy are the birds stiff !!!!!!
Been talking to Joe Borges and he is seeing the same, we have a low moving in with a breeze and clouds, it isn't here yet but something is changing as the birds were better this morning.
I just hope this change sparks them out of this funk, it sure can't hurt them LOL
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jun 23, 2005 11:53 AM
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motherlodelofts
116 posts
Jun 23, 2005
11:55 AM
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Todd if the birds can handle depth and do it with qaulity then why wouldn't you fly them in competition ?
We all breed for the deeper birds as long as they can hang and do it right.
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jun 23, 2005 11:55 AM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
33 posts
Jun 23, 2005
1:48 PM
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Scott, good luck this weekend. My old birds have been doing much the same, more flying than rolling and when they do roll, its been much shorter than usual. We have had the same high pressure as you so maybe there is something to it. Oddly enough the young ones are still a bunch of rolling freaks..lol. Too bad they still look like popcorn.
I think we fly the State Fly july 2-3, according the message Keith left on my voice machine.
Brian.
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Velo99
24 posts
Jun 23, 2005
3:14 PM
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Hey Scott,
Didn`t you tell me once to put a balloon in the box the night before if the kit had been flat or weather change was iminent. lmao
Good luck guys
v99
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motherlodelofts
122 posts
Jun 23, 2005
3:28 PM
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Nope not me, but don't think that it hasn't crossed my mind LOL
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nicksiders
149 posts
Jun 23, 2005
10:23 PM
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A balloon? What does it do for the kit? Hmmmm
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Alohazona
21 posts
Jun 24, 2005
1:31 AM
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Scott,I agree about the depth/quality when putting up a kit for the judges or in general when the weather optimum and you just want to see them let loose,those are the ones that standout in you mind.
The kits I flew this year were young birds kitting
extremely tight,the wing beat was there,waterfalling hurt,
they were alittle higher than I wanted but still working,would take a 5 to wait for them to come back down,but some where about 2 months ago they got alittle finished off and just wanted to fly or sky.When this happened a few club members said why dont you fly the big boyz,I just couldn't afford to lose them,even though they had made it back from all the overflys.In hindsight I'm glad I did hold off,too many light Kona wind days this winter and spring,and I still have the oppurtunity to breed them to what I'm working with now as they all go back to the same foundation cock.So I guess I'm saying its in the works.Aloha,Todd
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
316 posts
Jun 24, 2005
2:19 AM
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Nick.When you put a balloon in the kit box(night before) before you fly everytime the birds move inside the kit box it makes the baloon move.It gets them stressed to the point that they sometimes roll more when you release them.I have heard that some will put a rubber snake in too.I heard of one that put a Black snake(live) in before releasing.I had a cat that was harrassing a kit of my rollers one morning trying to get them thru the wire bottom.When I released the birds they were super charged.I should have kept the cat.LOL. David
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Alohazona
22 posts
Jun 24, 2005
10:12 AM
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The baloon/snake thing could go the the other way on ya as well.I guess its worth a try.Aloha,Todd
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