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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Sponsor New Members? Your Opinion Please
Sponsor New Members? Your Opinion Please
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
274 posts
Apr 28, 2005
9:42 PM
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Hey members, here is an idea I would like to get your opinions on, in order to build the site membership backup, how do you feel about you, the current site members being able to “sponsor” new members?
For example, let’s say Leo knows a quality roller guy who would like to participate in our forum but is not yet ready to make a purchase to acquire membership so Leo offers to sponsor this person by emailing me where I then register him as a new member?
Or, are you fine with a gradual buildup over a longer period of time? I am open to your suggestions. I don’t want to minimize the appreciation I have for those of you that have already financially supported this site but suggest this policy might be beneficial to current members and those with a desire to participate but not yet ready to make a purchase for whatever reason. What do you think?
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Alan Bliven
109 posts
Apr 29, 2005
2:09 AM
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From a business standpoint I'd suggest opening up the forum to everyone and advertise it and then use it as a service to promote the business side of the site. By having a lot of activity, it gives you a way to promote your products.
I make my living selling Tropical Fish and have a very busy website. I offer 100's of free pictures and enough free info to write a book. Check it out, it's at cichlidlovers.com I started out as just a hobbyist but it grew so big I had to quit my day job and now I make more money than I ever did with any regular job I have ever had.
Many people come in for the pictures on my site and info and end up buying my fish and products once they see the availability list which I boldly advertise.
Also, have you considered offering more products that just the Rollers, Nest Boxes and Bands? I have found the more variety you offer the more interesting it is to people. It might be impossible for you considering your storage space and time but I believe it's a good idea.
I wouldn't be ashamed to jump on the forum and boldly promote your Rollers. There's a lot of junk Rollers out there and it's a nice service for people to know where they can come and get reliable stock. There's nothing wrong with selling birds for a profit as long as you always offer good quality.
When I first came in this forum, I had a hard time locating the items you had for sale. They seemed to be hidden. But now I see the links are in a more bold place, where they should be.
I hope it works out for you,
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Alan
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
26 posts
Apr 29, 2005
4:19 AM
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Tony.I agree with Alan.Open it back up to everyone.Offer more products if you want to.Stay involved with your postings instead of staying out of most topics like you did in the past.Give your points of view just like any other member.They are as valuable as anyone else,s opinions.It is your site and you put a lot of time and money in it to keep it going and if you want to promote what you have available anywhere you want no one(well some would but who cares) would fault you for doing so.Open it back up to everyone and I am sure the ones that are here now will pass the word around to everyone we come in contact with.Just let it known from the beginning that you won,t tolerate foul language,Bad mouthing others etc. etc.or whatever rules you want to impose. My opinion.David
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Leo
Member
6 posts
Apr 29, 2005
9:49 AM
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Hey Guys, Allen has a really nice site,I tend to agree with Allen an Blue and open it up,,NOW comes theway to maintain it, you need..... PRODUCTS ..COME ON IDEAS???....How bout Ball Hats,with something ambossed on them,A Print of 514 to hang, Tee Shirt with FIREBALL on it??Tonys Fireballs??? Ruby Rollers??? Patches??AAAAAaaawhat else...Deep spinner contest....aaaah Ugly bird contest..LOL..YOU could even enter your wife in this contest....LOL just gettin silly...But we meed IDEAS...THINK of what you might buy or like to have, and post it here...BRB ..LEO.....P.S. Allen, what do you mean when you say ..B..roller???
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Alan Bliven
110 posts
Apr 29, 2005
10:39 AM
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Leo,
B. Roller = Birmingham Roller
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Alan
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Leo
Member
7 posts
Apr 29, 2005
10:59 AM
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Hi Tony, I got the E-Mail,THANKS, Ill make contact..It came to mind, that we should stay in touch because of the FIREBALLS, ED had open heart,and just now got one pr down on eggs, My thoughts were "down the line"we should swap a pr of youngsters,because only a few pr to work with, on both ends...these birds are the real deal, they produce like the Fireballs of yesteryear..I hope the ones you have are the same, I wanted to ask Bullfrog more about Charlie Graham, But i havent seen him on this site ..The name really rings a bell of yrs ago...LEO
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Leo
Member
8 posts
Apr 29, 2005
11:33 AM
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Thanks,Allen, I should have known that...HOPE I AINT GETTIN SENILE..LOL For some reason, I thought you were classing old timers that breed pure as "A" breeders, and contesters as "B" flyers, now that ive said it , sounds better all the time...B-Rollers. I got some birds that should be here in july or aug, American Rollers should be 8 -10 youngsters,I know you asked about them sometime back these guys are very scarce, He is trying to get a yellow out of an old cock, its probably the last of the yellow Americans, I really hate to see familys die away,,Fireballs are on the very edge.....REAL FIREBALLS...LEO
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Alan Bliven
111 posts
Apr 29, 2005
2:03 PM
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Leo,
Yes, I am interested in these rare breeds of Rollers. What I was asking about was the North American Highflying Roller which is the breed the American Roller was originally bred from. There's lots of confusion between the two and many believe they are the same breed but it's not the case.
The North American Highflying Roller is a highflying edurance flier like the tippler but will roll 100+ feet.
The American Roller was originally the same breed as the North American but has more of the B. Roller blood re-crossed into it, as a result it flys and performs somewhere inbetween the B. Roller and the North American.
Here's a quote from an article written by Spurling. It's at http://poultrysearch.tripod.com/articles/kds1.html
>>The breed commonly known as the American Roller arose mainly in the Portland area during the 40's and 50's from true North Americans. At one point, the two were one breed; but the Portland fanciers selected for a bird more similar to the Birmingham Roller and I have audio documentation that proves that certain Portland area fanciers re-crossed to Birmingham. These birds have been more or less selected to conform to the basic Birmingham idea due to smaller sizes, much shorter depth, and lower duration. In the process, color has been largely ignored. As a whole, the Portland breeders modified their birds to be the happy medium between the North American and the Birmingham, and this group of birds actually has more in common with the Birmingham than they do with the North American. There are some who continue to insist that the North American and American are one, but these are people who have no genuine clue of what the modern North American Highflying Roller is capable of. NO ONE has never heard of an American homing 50 miles in a day and NO ONE has never heard of an American flying nonstop for 12 and 13 or 14 hours or more on a regular basis. In fact, I have NEVER heard of a fancier in Portland going beyond 6 hours from them and that is pushing the birds to their limit so that when they land, you see them gasping for air and dragging their wings and tail in exhaustion. I am convinced that they are incapable of going beyond this on a regular basis and no one expects this.
The bottom line is that the two breeds are related closely, and while they share a few things in common - they are complete1y separate breeds.<<<
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Alan
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Alan Bliven
112 posts
Apr 29, 2005
2:09 PM
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Here's another quote speaking of the North American HF Roller:
>>Today, these pigeons have mostly died out and there are likely less than twenty breeders in North America. However, even though we have no club, we are a very, very organized group with all of us working for the same goals. At this point, we profess that our breed is the ultimate example of a 'Super Pigeon'. We still maintain the physical appearance of our birds, and for example, our revised standard of the 1912 version gives 30 points for colorquality (that's alot!). We are still working towards optimum depth and as these are not Birmingham Rollers, we are not too concerned with optimum velocity or frequency. Today, most members of the breed roll a minimum of 50 and 75 feet with near perfect safety and that is what we want - just depth. Today, at full development; many of the best pigeons roll in excess of 125 or 150 Feet. Also we are aiming towards optimum duration and we will (and have) competed with Tipplers and other endurance breeds. On average, most existing lofts are flying 7 to 10 hours in competition and a few of us are flying quite beyond this and posting times of 12 to 14 hours. The modern record was set on Sept. 8th, 1998 by Mr. Phil Roark of Grants Pass, OR (and Portland) with a time of 14 hours, 53 minutes. Technically, even Phil will admit that kits having flown beyond the 15 hour mark are bred yearly - but these have kits have not done so on the day that it matters. As well, most of us are now selecting for homing ability. Three of us locally have actually been flying some sort 'NY Flight Style' races in the vicinity of 40 to 60 air miles within 2 or 4 hours time and there are tales of North Americans homing incredible distances of beyond 200 miles within a few days time. This is nothing for even poor examples of Racing Homers, but for a breed that has traditionally not been known as a homing breed, it is something very amazing.
I would also like to add that the breed is still evolving after 130 years. While type and color remains as it always has, the last several years some great strides have been accomplished from an endurance standpoint and we have been steady increases of depth and also control of the roll over the last few years.<<
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Alan
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Leo
Member
9 posts
Apr 30, 2005
6:45 AM
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WOW ,man I had no idea these birds even existed, any more, You have really done your homework, I am really glad fanciers around the country have kept up the good work all this time, And a big PAT ON THE BACK to you for your fabulous world of information, on the activity going on with these birds. The Spurling articles on the Roller Pigeons are quite accurate, I was born in the Hotbed of roller men..Cinti, Ohio, my Dad had rollers,during the 40s gas was rashioned he would some how have enough left over to go visit roller guys, I rember visiting Mr Blackburn,he was worried about his brother going to war.He had little small loud colored pearleyed birds,they would fly hi an roll deep,,,???where is Spurling now????....LEO
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
27 posts
Apr 30, 2005
8:08 AM
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Leo.The last I heard of him he was SUPPOSED to have cheated several people out of their money on pigeon deals.This was a couple of years ago.He just sort of drifted away and I haven,t heard anything else about him.David
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Alan Bliven
113 posts
Apr 30, 2005
9:41 AM
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I believe he moved the Scotland and sold all his birds. While he was moving and selling his birds is where the supposed cheating took place. Regardless of what he did, the articles are still excellent.
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Alan
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
28 posts
Apr 30, 2005
10:23 AM
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Alan.Yes all his writings are good.I try to copy everything I find he has written.He used to have a place where he had several writings on the innernet and you could copy them for your own use.I don,t see many on the net anymore.Maybe on some of the sites where you have to pay to get into still has them.I had several sites bookmarked but a couple years ago everything was blocked.Maybe he did the blocking?If you happen to come across any thing else let us know.Thanks,David
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
276 posts
Apr 30, 2005
12:10 PM
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When I first started my site a few years ago and was dabbling with it, he was quick to offer encouragement and articles, thats when others started emailing me warning me that he was "ripping people off" and that he would cast a cloud over the site.
There was even a site that was devoted to ripping him a new one, seems like a few had a vendetta against him and took every opportunity to rip him. Funny thing was, there were as many people supporting him as not.
Needless to say, I had backed off posting his stuff. Now that I have more internet experience and savy, I would like to know the real story and find out just what the truth really was.
Seems whenever someone rises above the "radar" there are plenty in the crowd trying to pull him back down. I don't know if what was said was true, but I too enjoyed his articles and wish he would start writing again.
But with all the negative aura out there against him, he probably abandoned the notion of writing about pigeons anymore.
K.D. Spurling where are you?
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Alan Bliven
114 posts
Apr 30, 2005
1:04 PM
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He has a lot of stuff written in the archives at Pigeon-Talk forum at http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/ do a search under his user name turmani http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/search.php?searchid=63253
Here's some of his articles I have bookmarked on the web:
http://www.pigeonworldwide.com/newsite/modules.php?name=breeds
This article on the B. Roller is very interesting: http://www.pigeonworldwide.com/newsite/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=10
http://rzhev.tripod.com/
http://poultrysearch.tripod.com/articles/kds1.html
I can't say what he did or didn't do. I seen in one forum where a guy was accusing him of not sending 160.00 worth of birds he paid for when Spurling left the country... the guy was very angry and spreding it all over the internet...but who knows, there may be many jealous people out there that make a mountain out of a mole hill.
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Alan
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Alan Bliven
115 posts
Apr 30, 2005
1:08 PM
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I was reading a book by a friend who made this book out of Spurling articles on the web. He said after Spurling left the country the articles were taken down by the host because Spurling stopped supporting them. But he copied them just before they were taken down. I mean this is a huge book, mostly written on rare breeds.
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Alan
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BULLFROG
89 posts
Apr 30, 2005
4:57 PM
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leo i am still here just a little preocupied. chirle was a great man he died early this month. he was in the pigeon corps in the war and was instrumental in useing homeing pigeons to transfer messages back to base. when he came back from the sates he kept at the pigeons and had over 300 at his death. his place was a maze of lofts built when he stated a new project. he was relentless in his culling and i remember one day he had a list he had been makeing all week of birds he had noticed were not up to quality in his show birds or were not giveing him the performance he wanted in his flying breeds. we spent 5 hours and filled two trash cans with cull birds. he sold very little but gave away many birds. a true man of the sport. he wanted the purest blood he could get of any breed he wanted. he drove to canada to pick up his fireballs. i have heard the story many times :) he would drive cross country to get the exact bird he wanted from a fellow who had the best. in his later years the records and banding fell to the side but he never let his birds muddle or cross lines each pen was kept true the line he had pens of roller breeders. one from mc avery ???? (the fireballs) one with birds from bil pensom himself. and several others that were just as definite to blood. there wasnt a single birds there that was just a roller or justa homer. when he wanted to try the jansenn blood he went out to the jansenn brothers lofts and picked sevral birds as breeders. he was a quiet guy but those that could put his name with the birds they saw were to say the least deticated follower and many spent more time a his house than their own (myself included) learning from charlie. we all miss him very much. all his birds were willed to me and i have begun spreading them around to the breeders who have that breed and have got birds from charlie before. i will be keeping his americans and fireballs as these were the birds i started out with and after finding my old blood ruined i am very pleased to have these birds. as for the americans is there a diffrence between the h.f. americans and americans? i have flown several of these i recived and am amazed at the depth but they are very loose birds with rolling and kitting. thanks all chris
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Leo
Member
10 posts
May 01, 2005
8:47 AM
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Chris, Its real sad to loose some one like Charlie,We have all lost some one like that, along the line.WE never forget them,as life goes on.Chris, we are still working on the Fireball project,,Eddie had open heart surgery and is doing real good. One pr is down on eggs, so were on the move. I would like to know more about the Fireballs colors etc. I dont guess there were any papers on them?? How many did you wind up with???...BRB...LEO
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BULLFROG
90 posts
May 02, 2005
7:01 AM
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the only colors i have now are the red splash and the black splash birds. the line that had the blue hot spinner is at tonys place. i currently have 7 pairs with two pr on eggs. all but two pair are very old birds and i was hopeing to pull and foster the eggs but i didnt have the fosters ready so they are going to set their own. good luck on your pair and i will let you know how my pairs go. chris
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
279 posts
May 04, 2005
10:22 PM
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Hello All, "thank you" for your thoughts and ideas. After considering what you had to say in response to my initial question, I agree, I think everyone benefits from an open site even with the controversy that can accompany it.
For the record, I want those to know who will question my decision as a financial one, I continued to take in numerous orders for Ruby Rollers, Fireballs and leg bands, even without the open forums.
I am doing it to support the loyal members and the customers that have contributed to this site and have expressed a desire to have the discussion board opened again.
I personally invite back those that went elsewhere and welcome your thoughts and opinions and graciousness to others on the "All Roller Talk" discussion boards.
With that...WELCOME BACK and FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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