Ally Mac
39 posts
Mar 15, 2005
12:37 PM
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At last i have got hold of some quality birds.
Iain Birkets 2000, 2 hens and 1 cock, they have produced stunning birds for the last few years.
I have 4 pairs that I plan to use as feeders. I am planning to leave the new birds nest boxes open so the cock can work both hens and keep the feeders boxes closed, shifting eggs as they come.
Is this the best way to build my new team? i am only planning to take one round each of my feeders to see what they can produce.
All advice appreciated.
Al.
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
235 posts
Mar 16, 2005
10:32 PM
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Hey Al, I am thinking that if the cock is allowed to go between both hens at will, he may very well just nest with only one of them and chase the other around trying to mate but also pecking on her. The hen that was chosen may also begin chasing her around to chase her off.
I would put both hens in their own compartment and move the cock back and forth. You may want to prevent the separated hen and cock from seeing each other so that he is focused only on the hen he is with at the moment.
I think your idea to use fosters is a great idea and will move your program along much faster. FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Ally Mac
40 posts
Mar 17, 2005
12:09 PM
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Tony.
Thanks for that, can i ask you to ellaborate?
Should I close one pair up at a time till i get eggs for moving or just give them 2 or 3 days together each? I obviously want to get as many eggs as possible this season from these 3 birds.
How would you work it?
Ta. Al.
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jeo2314
11 posts
Mar 17, 2005
3:28 PM
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Ally, If you would like to post your E-mail address, I could send you a picture of a polygamy breeding nest-box. You may get some ideas from it to help you construct something for yourself. Is it O.K to post E-mail addresses Tony?
Jeff
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
236 posts
Mar 17, 2005
4:38 PM
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Hahahaha...Yes, email addresses are fine for paid subscribers! Thanks for asking. Tony
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Ally Mac
41 posts
Mar 18, 2005
4:02 AM
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Jeff
That sounds like what i am looking for.
alasdair.maclean@ukgateway.net
Many thanks.
Al.
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bantieman
1 post
Mar 18, 2005
3:53 PM
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Jeff, if you would could you please send me the same picture to bantieman@yahoo.com ?
Thanks,
Luke
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Ally Mac
42 posts
Mar 21, 2005
5:51 AM
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Jeff.
That article on the Bull Breeding system was excellent. Thank you.I think I shall continue as I am at present but will possibly go down that road next year.
Tony, would there be a problem with posting such articles here?
Al.
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
237 posts
Mar 21, 2005
7:28 AM
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Hey Al, I think we could do it. It will only be available to subscribers though. Can you send me a link so I can check it out? Thanks! Tony
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
5 posts
Apr 03, 2005
4:44 AM
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I have been playing around with this one cock & several hens too.I have been putting the cock with each hen each day for a few hours.I will be fostering the eggs from each hen when they lay them. From what I have heard the sperm from the cock is good from one mating for 5 or 6 days.Also that both eggs are fertiled from this same mating.I have been trying to find proof of this but I haven,t found out for sure yet.If this is true then it would make it a lot easier to do and would only need a few times being with each hen.This is a new try for me so I will keep putting the cock with each hen every day untill each hen lays her eggs.I have done the cock & hen together untill they lay and then switch cock to another hen.This works well but I would like several hens laying at the same time.If anyone has any info of when the econd egg becomes fertile or anything else on the fertility thing I would like to hear it.
I am still of the opinion that when a breeder gets older they will not produce the quality of young that they did when they were young.Which would be more reason to get as many young from them in their early years.Whats your thoughts on this? David
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BULLFROG
78 posts
Apr 03, 2005
7:53 AM
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david it has been my experiance that the second egg is fertilized at the same time it just needs the second day to form the shell as the cavity in the pigeon isnt big enough to hold two mature eggs. as for an older bird not produseing the young it used to. why would the age of the bird affect its genetic makeup?i can understand the lak of fertility but if the genetic deteriorate as age goes on then there is another problem with the bird. chris
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
7 posts
Apr 03, 2005
10:20 AM
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Chris.I don,t have any proof of what happens but I see it quite often.I have one pair right now that are 1990 models that have not produced a good roller in the last 5 rounds that I flew from them.i have seen it with others also.This pair was a producer of quality rollers before.I have seen several times where the older they became the quality of their young decreased.Seen it in dogs over the past 50 years also.Surely I am not the only one who has seen this but I can,t find any proof as to why.David
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BULLFROG
79 posts
Apr 03, 2005
2:14 PM
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that is very interesting i would like to know the reason for this i have kept homers in their 14th year to breed from and the young still show the performance. i have some jacconette birds one of which is 15 years old and he has produced top line birds so i will see what his look like from what may be his last round. i wonder what would cause the genetics to be altered in the later years? they shouldnt change i would think. hhmmm one more thing to ponder in the dead of night :) chris
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
8 posts
Apr 04, 2005
3:02 AM
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Chris.When I said they didn,t produce Good rollers I should have said AS GOOD. The young are still rolling good but they are not the quality that their earlier siblings were.
I have asked this question so many times and still haven,t come up with anything solid to go on.I have been told that it's all in my head that I am remembering the others were better than they really were.I know a fellows mind will play tricks on him but this is a lifetime of seeing it in dogs and now seeing the same thing in Rollers.I know with dogs the Female's first litter will always be better than any litter after them.(Performance in working dogs)Some will be as good but the first is always the best.
I also wonder why so many pigeon fanciers sell off the older breeders after a couple of years of breeding from them.Is it something that the ones that know don,t want it known so they can still sell their old stock?? It got cold here again and you can see I am doing more inside thinking than outside working.LOL.
Someone who studies these things should have some kind of proof on this.Maybe it has never been studied. David
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BULLFROG
82 posts
Apr 04, 2005
7:13 PM
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ok david this has really peaked my interest here. lets do an experiment. i have that pair of your young cock bird and bobs young hen. this is the first clutch for either of them. i will keep this pair together and keep very detailed records of them. after a few rounds we will look and see what we see then through the years we will keep compareing the birds and see what we get. if you ahve a young pair there that you can do the same with we will have two pair to look at and see if the degeneration of performance is consistent in its decline. this would be a great mind bender. chris
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
254 posts
Apr 06, 2005
6:32 AM
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Hey Al, how is the breeding plan coming along? Have you been able to use the 2 hens and 1 cock as you suggested using the other 4 pairs as fosters?
Was the bull program article of any use or give you ideas or any insight? FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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