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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
do we have our eyes closed?
do we have our eyes closed?
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Mount Airy Lofts
42 posts
Jan 28, 2005
9:53 AM
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Hi All,
When we select a bird for anything else but performance, the aspect of why this breed is what it is would be lost.
Take for example, the dual purpose roller. These birds were bred for the Show Room first then to perform. Since winning Shows over rid the other aspects (the performance side, etc.), the performance ultimately suffered. Altho some dual purpose rollers were still able to roll, all fell victims to being poor to average in performance. You can't breed for the Show Room (today's standard) and say that you are also breeding for performance. It's either one or the other. Why do you think the dual purpose rollers came and went? (Altho there are still some who breeds this type of bird, so I can't say it totally went extinct here)
Same goes for breeding for a certain color factor. I think Pensom was a man ahead of his time and I would like to quote something he nailed in his book 'The Birmingham Roller Pigeon'.
Pensom states "Breeding for markings is right out, for by so doing one would produce rollers only in name" "For any fancier to breed birds of a color and marking to meet his tastes he would have to breed far more than he could successfully manage. It is possible to breed any color and marking but the ratio of good birds produced would be extremely small. This is the difference between a successful strain for ideal spinning and the pursuit of colorful pigeons" "My experience has taught me that the all-round spinners come in the blue chec pattern, with red checquer and dun (Ash Red Spread) close up" "It is significant that in pursuit of the highest quality Rollers all fanciers will end up with these patterns"
Remember Pensom was stating these quotes to the natural colors found in the breed (the REAL DEALS). Even in the real deals, if you breed for color or anything else (like pedigree chasers) besides performance, you will eventually just end up with a bunch of pretty birds (or pretty numbers on paper).
The above statement still holds true in my mind - today.
Ultimately it is your choice. A lot of people choose not to breed for performance alone and cross breeding is common in these lofts, others like the hard core fliers do (yes - there are back yard fliers who are hard core fliers but just got tired of people stealing their birds/a hard core flier is a hard core flier - PERIOD!).
Remember, not all families can hold themselves. In my opinion, if your family is capable of producing the goods and holding true after being inbred and line bred intensely... then there is no other stock better then what you have. Only inbreeding and linebreeding will truly tell you what your birds are or aren't!
How long do you think you can go if you continously inbreed opal to opal or indigo to indigo or stencil to stencil or etc.? Just something to think about.
If your birds can't hold true, why do you still have them? This is something every one who fly birds have to ask themselves. If you are closing your eyes on the performance of any bird, say a bird with a impressive: Pedigree back ground or Show Bird or RARE color or anything else but what it is (a smoker in the air), then you are only breeding Rollers in name.
Thor
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Phantom1
80 posts
Jan 28, 2005
10:01 AM
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Thor, my eyes are wide open! The debate has never been about Show Rollers versus Flying Type Rollers. But since it's here now, lets discuss. I used to be a competitive man of Show Rollers. I was lucky to get one of them to get off the ground to fly up to a perch - they were so big!!! To the contrary, in support of my local club, I'll throw some flying rollers into a show just for fun. The kids enjoy it, and it helps the club. Oh, and then there's those that will say "What a pretty color!!!". But never have any of the "color" breeders said they're trying to develop a "Dual Purpose Roller". The things we are trying to accomplish - no wait - have accomplished - with these "colored" rollers cannot, nor will it ever be admitted.
Who's eyes are closed again?
Question - if someone only had "colored" rollers in their loft, and mated best to best, and the outcome was that the color remained from the parents, could they then be called rollers in your eyes? I mean, they'd only be mating the best to best of what they had with no regards to color at all!
Last Edited by Phantom1 on Jan 28, 2005 10:09 AM
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Phantom1
82 posts
Jan 28, 2005
10:27 AM
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Thor, also according to Pensom, Blue-Checks are the best rollers. Why don't we all just cull off everything but that color? We'd still raise only a small percentage of keepers, and ironically we'd all be breeding for color - Blue Checks LOL!
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dmitch
15 posts
Jan 28, 2005
12:00 PM
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From Pensom it requires a lot of skill and understanding to produce and maitain a high class stud of pigeons.I have fond so many conflicting opinions regarding the qualities of the flying tumbler in all its phases among certain sections of fancy of late years that i feel unless such confusion is checked the higher virtues of the breed will suffer and may even become extinct.We have fanciers among us who take the hobby very seriouly and they consider their effort something of a duty to mankind to keep these birds of high class.It is easy to ruin a stud of first class pigeons in one or two seasons which may very well have taken a liftime to creat. P.S What ever we put in these birds wil make or break them.Dmitch.
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