Mongrel lofts
55 posts
Jan 26, 2005
5:54 PM
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Folks,
Been a lot of talk on here, about pure Birmingham rollers, and what factors, colors, patterns and Modifiers are not in the Birmingham roller.. Please, for you own good, get the NBRC tapes on genetics,, you will see theses men crossing the breed to get ice, pencil,toy stencil, and many other factors.. Get these tapes, and you decided if these guys are putting roll first, or color first than trying to add the roll after they get the color, factors and modifiers?? DO yourself a favor, get those tapes!! Open you eyes to the cross bred stuff these guys have been selling you as rollers...
Those of you that just like pretty pigeons and if one rolls now and then,, great,, you have found the right birds.. Just get those NBRC genetic color tapes,, I won't say anymore on this topic,, after viewing them again,, its worse than I remember,, UGLY!!! Mongrel Lofts
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Bluesman
131 posts
Jan 26, 2005
6:07 PM
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Ken.Why won,t you give your name like everyone else does at the end of their post.
I see where you are coming from.NBRC is allowing these things to go on in their club.They are not Birmingham Rollers but still allowing them to compete.Even tho you disapprove you still stay a member just so you can fly your birds with them.
I don,t have to stay a member.If this is the way the NBRC is I am canceling my membership first thing tomorrow.Thanks Ken for steering me in the right direction.David
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highroller
75 posts
Jan 26, 2005
6:43 PM
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While I believe it is true that other breeds have been crossed into the BR to get some of these colors isn't it also true that after breeding back to the pure stock, (for what is it 7 generations?), that the bird is considered pure bred again? Some may not breed back to the pure bred stock long enough to make them pure bred again but I'm also sure that some do so I can accept that there are some pure bred BR of color now. As many posts said before, just be sure of what you are buying, ask the right questions and lots of them.
Dan
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Phantom1
47 posts
Jan 26, 2005
7:26 PM
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Dan, I believe you're right on the money. We have two separate issues here...yet again. We have those that cross breeds to work on color and then pass them along to others. Either with an informed background of what the bird really is, or "Oh, yeah! It's a roller alright! Trust Me!!!". The other side to the story is that those that tackle any project and see it through will do so with the best intentions of adding something to the breed and to the hobby.
I don't necessarily think that it's the NBRC that's supporting the inconsistancy of the crosses. Rather the NBRC exists to support the furtherment of the breed...whatever that may be. It still remains to this day, the responsibility of all of us to support this hobby. If it weren't for every person on this forum and abroad, we wouldn't have the roller period!
Mongrel - I would encourage you to destroy those tapes. If it disgusts you so deeply; to the point you have to come on to this forum and damn those that have Milky or Ice or whatever, I would STRONGLY encourage it. It takes someone with the understanding of genetics to do some good. I'm under the impression from your posts that you have only a minimal understanding of what these "colors" are. Much less how they work and how to breed them. If the "color guys" looked at every potential color with the same scrupples you do, we really would all be breeding Blue-Checks and Blue-Bars. I truly believe that would run more people away from the hobby than what it would draw them in.
I suppose as a closing point, we need the "die hards" just as much as we need the "color guys". Together we're going to succeed in areas some would consider to be impossible and out of the question. Right now, we just have a bump in the road. I don't know what's it's going to take to come together in this breed. Color birds have been bred, flown, and won. So have Blue-Checks and the like.
Fight the good fight!
Eric
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Mother lode lofts
430 posts
Jan 26, 2005
7:37 PM
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I'm sure your right Dan. All that is left when you are done is the color and nothing else, Right ?
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Jan 26, 2005 7:38 PM
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Phantom1
51 posts
Jan 26, 2005
7:42 PM
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That actually roll and win too! :-)
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RodB
40 posts
Jan 27, 2005
4:27 AM
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Hey Dave dont cancel membership , the NBRC is a good thing , they are behind the competitions you need the NBRC , the guys crossing all and sundry will always do it , they are in every breed of anything , so long as you know what is going on thats whats important , its a buyers market , I have always thought if you get taken in a deal then you were ment to learn the lesson .
Popularity of the breed will have many consequences but as a whole is a good thing for the breed , the real deal will be harder to find but it will always be there no matter what direction the common Birmingham Roller is headed , the real ones will always exist , they just get harder to find .
Rod
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Bluesman
138 posts
Jan 27, 2005
4:51 AM
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Rod.Thanks for the vote of confidence.I know a few bad apples can spoil the whole bushel.However I am just about fed up to my Gullet with the whole prejudice thing and its time it is resolved once and for all.Only NBRC can do that.David
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highroller
76 posts
Jan 27, 2005
12:27 PM
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Hi Scott,
Beauty is only skin (or feather) deep right? It's what's on the inside that counts. Can anyone prove what genes or characteristics are tied soley to feather color. If not, then no one can say with any certainty that there are impurities left in a color bird after generations of mating to pure stock.
Dan
BTW I have mostly black, some andalusian, a few blue, a few ash red and recessive red birds so I'm not a big color breeder, just trying to look at this whole thing logically.
Last Edited by highroller on Jan 27, 2005 12:32 PM
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Cliff
36 posts
Jan 27, 2005
2:09 PM
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Highroller, Too bad. You said that nasty word "andalusian". Now they will brand you a color breeder who crosses Ice pigeons and the like into rollers; as someone who is not interested in performance; as a feather merchant who is only interested in selling birds and ripping people off and taking the breed down the toilet! Your mongrel birds are not Birmingham Rollers according to those guys and are unfit to participate in the competitions and doomed to failure, based on the posts of the last week from the purists. So why do you even bother? Cliff
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Mother lode lofts
438 posts
Jan 27, 2005
2:22 PM
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The inside is the hardest part Dan. Buy hey if you believe that all that remains is the paint job I'm happy for you !!!
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Steve S.
64 posts
Jan 27, 2005
6:46 PM
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Cliff,
The more I read and re-read your post I think that pretty well sums it up.
I have to agree with your assesment.
Steve
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highroller
77 posts
Jan 27, 2005
7:37 PM
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Hey guys,
Funny thing is, my andalusians are some of the best performers I have. My blacks all come down from them and are good rollers too so regardless of color I will continue to mate best to best and will probably conitnue to see the A word pop up in my loft. Scott, I'm glad to hear you are happy for me (though we all know you don't mean it, LOL). I'm happy with what I have and don't need someone else's approval. I'm into rollers for the fun and relaxation I get from it. A guy could get stressed out trying to please this crowd!! LOL
Dan
Last Edited by highroller on Jan 28, 2005 7:10 PM
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Bluesman
158 posts
Jan 28, 2005
6:31 AM
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Dan.Do you know where your Andalusians came from?
The ones Randy and Doug flew came from James Turner.The ones I have also came from him.They were down from one James called 007.
The hottest birds in my family is no longer the Andalusians but the Qualmonds.Again from James Turner.Actually they are a little to hot for me.You really have to keep a handle on them compared to the others.David
P.S.I think this one catches me up.LOL.
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highroller
78 posts
Jan 28, 2005
12:36 PM
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David,
I can't be sure where the andalusian came from. I got an andalusian cock mated to a blue check hen from a local fellow who had really good rollers for years. He moved and got rid of his birds and lofts and I ended up with this pair. I have been building my main family or strain whatever you prefer to call it from this pair and a related black and white hen which carries rec. red that I got as a young bird and trained and flew at my place before stocking.
Dan
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Cliff
42 posts
Jan 31, 2005
8:25 AM
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Dave, Remembering that Qualmond is an allele of Almond (and of course we all know that Almonds can't spin!), I have a couple of questions for you. My Indigo and Andalusians from Turners family are my best, 20-40 ft. with excellent speed. I have Red-check Qualmond Cock and a Blue Check Qualmond hen that are 20-30 footers. I am trying to decide what to put them on and now you've got me worried. I was thinking to put the red Qualmond on a World Cup RR hen, excellent type, 20-30 ft. and frequent, but maybe that will be too hot?!? And the blue Qualmond, I was thinking about a spread black cock 20 ft, but a little slower in the roll. When you day "too hot" for you, are you speaking of too frequent to kit well, too uch depth creating a loose slow roll, or what? What are you pairing up that makes them too hot? Cliff
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Bluesman
185 posts
Jan 31, 2005
10:12 AM
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Cliff.I am breeding Qualmond to Qualmond.Father to daughter & mother to son.The Qualmonds are hot to begin with.My next round they will be split.When I say hot.They are 30 to 40 footers to begin with.Lots of frequency.They explode when coming out of the kit box.This parent back to young is causing them to roll down & hit before getting up high enough.After the second or third try they get up and settle down.I didn,t have this problem with the original pair.Just when I put them on their young.This is their 3rd round together and they have all been like this.I don,t have this problem if I mate the qualmond to blue bar,check,or spread.David
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