Bluesman
69 posts
Jan 20, 2005
4:16 AM
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Good Morning Everyone.Another cold day here in Pa.
Jay brought up a very good point in the Wheat Thread.What is everyone's opinion on Vitimins,Vinegar & Grit for Kit birds.
How often for each,amounts,What kind etc.
I have never used vitimins for Kit birds.I use reg.Apple Cider Vinegar all the time.1 to 2 tablespoons per gallon of water.I don,t measure.
I use Red Grit once aweek.
What is the difference between Red Grit & Grey Grit? David
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J_Star
147 posts
Jan 20, 2005
6:29 AM
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In regard to the vitamins and our previous discussion about Wheat and protein content, protein is made up of amino acids which are basic building blocks of muscle fiber. Fatty acids are a component also. Therefore, vitamins that contain amino acid and the B complex would help supplement the weak wheat (8%). Since our birds are locked up (do not roam freely) and grit is not at their disposal 24/7, then their feed will not give them all the vitamins and minerals that their body require. To me, the vitamins added in the water will substitute for that. Vitamins are used by the body for regulation of certain metabolic process, physiological and enzymatic systems. It is not an expensive item to buy and lasts for a long time.
Apple Cider Vinegar is good to use to keep their dropping a bit acid and avoid diseases and is also packed with some minerals that are good for them. Also act as a wormer, and keep worms at bay. I do not like to use bleach in the water as some fanciers do for the simple fact that the birds need the good bacteria in their gut at all times. I used to keep red grit in the kit box all the time, but when the birds are hungry they eat it all up. Now I just give it in the weekend or mix some with the feed. They love the red grit but never tried the other stuff to really know. In occasion, I mix some oyster shell bits with the grit because it is good for their bones just like the eggshells for the breeders.
Jay
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fhtfire
88 posts
Jan 20, 2005
8:21 AM
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I really do not use vitamins..my kit birds get a 28% protein pellet mixed with wheat and milo. I mix it about 5parts wheat/milo to 1 part pellet. The pigeon pellet is loaded with extra stuff like vitamins and minerals. I have been experitmenting with the pellet mix and my birds are not fat, they do not drink more water. The poop does not stink and it is not runny. They are very healthy. I just use the pellets as I would peas. I think with pellets you get the extra water and runny poop etc because you are feeding straight pellets...anyway I get the vitamins in the pellets. I do feed Apple cider vinigar about 3 times a week.
As for grit I leave it in the box all the time. I do not know why roller guys pull the grit...they need it to digest the food. I notice my breeders eat the shit out of the grit...but my kit birds just eat a little grit. But it is in front of them all the time. I have always wondered why grit is left out of the kit box or just fed every now and then. I have asked and never reall got a straight answer...I was told by one guy that it will cut the bird inside if it rolls hard. I had to throw the Bull#%&* flag on that one. One guy also told me he put it in the kit box and they just ate it up like it was sauflower! I asked if they had grit in front of them before..he said every now and then....well I said that they were deficiant....they had not had any so they wanted all they could. If he kept it in the box a little longer it would even out and they too would not eat that much. I am serious...I put about 1.5 cups of grit and it lasts about a week sometimes longer. That is not much grit.....that is for 20 birds.
Chuck Foster (dry creek lofts) and I had this very discussion about grit and he keeps grit in front of his birds 24/7 too. He could not see a reason not to. Birds are smart...they will only eat what they need...but like any animal...if it is something that they need and they are deficiant they will eat all they can. Well that is my 2 cents.
Someone who runs a lot of kit boxes should do an experiment and keep grit in one kit and no grit in the other and see if it affects the birds.
rock and ROLL
Paul fullerton
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J_Star
149 posts
Jan 20, 2005
9:00 AM
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Paul, When you feed the birds once a day, and they get hungry during the day b4 the normal eating time, they eat it all up as a substitute to feeding. I fill it twice or maybe more a week. I stoped that practice and now I give it just a few times. When spring and summer showes up, I will change the practice.
jay
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fhtfire
89 posts
Jan 20, 2005
9:24 AM
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Jay,
I feed once a day too. I have not had a problem with them eating just grit at all. I feed 2 cups for 20 birds after a fly...of the pellet/wheat mix then on the next day of rest 1.5 cups wheat and milo then on the next day of rest I feed 1 cup of wheat and milo mix then do it again...so the birds are real hungry and they still do not eat just grit. The breeders on the other hand...I think they like the grit more then grain LOL! I know that birds "need" grit. Do you think it is bad only giving the grit every week or so...or would it be better to feed the birds....then when they are done...leave the grit in the kit box for a short period of time and then pull it. I hope more people post on this topic...it just seems like grit food and water go hand in hand. I don't know is it harmful to not let the birds have grit but once a week! What do you think?
Rock and ROll
Paul
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Mother lode lofts
374 posts
Jan 20, 2005
9:36 AM
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I grit my kit birds about once a week. I don't see a reason not to keep it in though as it seems to blow through them quick and unless deprived they'll just peck at it a bit,if they are eating it to fill up on I would hold it until thier feeding kicks in and I think that the youngbirds need it,I think once a week for old birds is plenty though. There was a time that I gritted maybe once a month. I will pull the grit when setting up for a fly though. I never use vitamines other than before a fly. Sure would'nt hurt but I just don't. AVC I use often.
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Jan 20, 2005 9:40 AM
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J_Star
150 posts
Jan 20, 2005
11:00 AM
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Paul, A while back I asked in one of my posts about giving grit to the rollers and the responce that I got back form some that they only feed once a week or maybe put some on the top of the kit box. So I called Danny who I got the birds from and asked him. He told me that he don't put it there for them all the time because they eat it like feed b4 feeding time and he suggested that to use it once a week or put some for them after their normal feeding then take it out. But due the freeeeezing weather we've been having, I don't want to go outside more than I have to after the feeding thing. Do you belame me!! Man, you freez your bunz being outside this time of year.
I was told by the supplier I get the grit from that pigeons loves this grit. Maybe it really taste good for them to want to chomp on it. You think that if they are deficient on some of the minerals that the vitamins I been giving them would supplement that for them or after a while they will stop eating this stuff. Danny also told me that he can fly them on just eating grit alone! I don't know if he was joking or not, but really interesting.
Jay
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