Mongrel lofts
39 posts
Jan 09, 2005
2:23 PM
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132
Why in the world would anyone want to waste there time trying to make a family out of roll downs, when there are so many good rolling stable birds out there? The question is not can you, the question is, why would you?? WHY WHY WHY?? Mongrel Lofts
Last Edited by Mongrel lofts on Jan 09, 2005 2:24 PM
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Steve S.
30 posts
Jan 09, 2005
2:36 PM
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I as Kenny don't understand your reasoning.
Learned long time ago as a kid, rolldowns only produce the same.
I have never seen anyone that could purge out trait.
Agreed that some of the best families produce a few from time to time or the roll wouldn't be there.
Start with good stable spinners and you'll get all the rolldowns you care to have.
In my opinion they are culls.
Steve
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Mother lode lofts
343 posts
Jan 09, 2005
2:52 PM
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Roll downs should never ever be allowed to leave the property whether someone want's them or not. We created them therefore it is up to us to kill them. There is nothing crueler than creating more of these to kill and maim themselfs.
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fhtfire
85 posts
Jan 09, 2005
3:00 PM
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Ask yourself this...would you breed a bunch of horses that you could never ride....or a milk cow that you could never drink the milk....or a chicken that you could never eat the eggs because of a genetic mishap....well that is what you have with roll downs....they do not have the goods genetically...so why would you breed from them. I think that it is cruel to breed a roll down....because they carry the bad gene. Just my thoughts....there are a lot of good birds out there and fanciers that would be willing to get you some good birds. just my two cents.
rock and ROLL
Paul Fullerton
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rollerman132
4 posts
Jan 09, 2005
3:02 PM
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I'm not saying that this is what I would like to do; just asking in general if a person could find some thing to work with from a family with a high percentage of roll downs. lol
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JUrbon
44 posts
Jan 09, 2005
3:44 PM
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The answer to your question is sure but most would prefer not to produce the rolldowns that would no doubt be raised while trying to develope stability. It is just not something I would encourage anybody to take part in.I had to laugh at Pauls analogies but they make perfect sense, Well put Paul. Joe Urbon
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rollerman132
5 posts
Jan 09, 2005
10:07 PM
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Let me reword this, if a person started with say 6 pairs, and out of these 6 pairs he was to breed 50 birds the first year. The first year he got 5 stock able birds;the other 30 were roll downs and the last 15 birds were non rollers or non kiters ect... being that the stock able birds had a strong genetic background for roll downs, would the off spring of these stock birds produce even more roll downs or would these birds produce some thing that the fancier can start a family with? Or would the fancier just be wasting his time?
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spintight
40 posts
Jan 09, 2005
10:44 PM
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As you have put these I would say that you are wasting your time. For me if I get more then say 2-5% of what I raise to be rolldowns there was a problem somewhere.
What we normally see is 1-2 pair producing all the roll downs you get every year, at least here that is what I see. I never have every pair producing roll downs as it appears with your birds.
If I had the knowledge you have and are relaying to us all, I would be looking for a few more pairs from a reputable fancier to try out, you could always use these roll down producers as foster birds for others.
It has been my experience and opinion that the trait to roll down could be labeled a "lethal" gene and a gene that can be impossible to get out of your line unless you outcross and then they would not be the same anyway.
This bad gene is one that you try to weed out of your line as they come out from inbreeding and line breeding but if you are getting those types of percentages it's not worth the effort. You might keep a few of your favorites to experiment with and you might find an outcross the works with a few of them but this would be some serious trials to fix it. I would simply cut back on these and try your best to pick up some others to begin experimenting with in the meantime. You will have a HARD road weeding out a trait that strong in some birds.
Start looking for more, unless you are for some reason mismanaging them so different or flying them too often. Hard spinners can be made to roll down if you mismanage them. Mostly this is flying them more then daily after they have developed a hard spin or starving them down so much to a weakended state and flying them too much. A good solid mature kit of hard spinners only needs to be flown every other day or every 3rd day.
Rolling is kind of like working out for a body builder. If they are putting in a solid performance day in and day out they are breaking down their muscles so to speak, similar to if you were working out hard daily on the same muscles. Most weight lifters I think switch days off with a different work out to allow for certain muscles to heal up better from the workout. This comparison could be made about most athletes conditioning before an event.
Contact the guy they came from find out how many roll downs he gets, I would bet he get a lot of them. In a lot of cases management can play a role in this but it's hard to say unless you get a better picture of what the guy they came from can tell you about them, but to me it sounds like a classic case of roll down genetics in a specific genepool.
Dave
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