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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Opinions on individual feeding ?
Opinions on individual feeding ?
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RodB
4 posts
Nov 23, 2004
4:01 PM
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Hello Guys
How do you guys feel about feeding your No1 kit birds indvidually , I have read much in here on the huge part feed plays , are we splitting hairs by going this route , does feeding a single problem bird a different mix or volume from the others bring him line with the rest of the kit .
Interested to see what you guys think of this feed regime .
Thanks Rod
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
329 posts
Nov 23, 2004
4:17 PM
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Hey Rod. When you get to the point where you have selected through birds over time to create an A-team, chances are they are good enough that you will do whatever it takes to insure they can put up the goods when called upon. Having a close bred family helps to 'even out' the feeding regime, being that the chances are greater that most if not all of the birds will eat nearly the same and require nearly the same portions for optimum results. The best flyers are usually the ones who pay close attention to their A-team and know exactly which ones to keep an eye on and which ones not to worry about. The key is for the individual to know their birds and be able to adjust to support them when required. Usually the hard workers, particularly hens, will require a little more feed than a blue collar cock bird. Speaking from my A-team, I have several in there that after feeding the team their requirement for that day, I pull a few out and let them eat as much as they want on the side. These are the hardest workers in the bunch and conversely usually are the ones getting pushed aside by the cock birds. These are also the same birds all the time, again, the hardest workers. I believe it was Billings who once fed each bird individually and maybe he can chime in here and give his perspective on how and why he felt it worked. I think if a person has the time and patience there is no doubt that feeding each bird of the team individually can eventually provide an optimum balance though I suspect at least half of the team will end up getting about the same amount or type of seed.
Brian.
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JUrbon
31 posts
Nov 23, 2004
6:03 PM
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Like Brian said Rod if you have the time and fell so compelled to try, it might be worth your while. I can certainly see the benifits if you feed mixed grain but if you keep them on a staple of wheat than there is no need to. The only reason that you would feed seperately in my opinion is to make sure each bird is getting the same mix and one bird is not going aroung eating up all of the wheat and another the saflour and so on. Even on wheat you might have to pull some of the more active birds to let them eat on there own due to the lack of energy after working harder than some of the others in the kit. Just something you will have to play with and learn as the birds progress. Joe Urbon
Last Edited by JUrbon on Nov 23, 2004 6:04 PM
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J_Star
88 posts
Nov 23, 2004
7:19 PM
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Based on the earlier discription of problem kit birds, any roller that has eating disorder, meaning pushed around (if not a youngster among adult birds) or eating slowly is also a problem bird. Rollers should hit the feeding tray and feed like there is no tomorrow and should not leave one seed left on the tray. If you are going to baby certain birds then you are kidding yourself, based on your earlier discussion of problem kit birds.
Best way, in my opinon, is to give the wheat to the birds first and when they are done then give them the Milo. That is if you are feeding 50/50 to make sure all get the same amount of mix. Also make your feeding tray to be in a way like the basket that is in the top of a tool box. It is like a tray with a handle that goes from one end to the other. You will find the birds lined up next to each other feeding and picking seeds from in front of them without the cocks pushing the hens around or the stronger hustling the weaker. It works best for feeding. try it, you will like the result. If one tray is not enough, use two.
We all talk about feeding all the time but no one mention anything about Grit. Do you guys give your kit birds Grit? If you don't, why not?
Also do you give your flyers oyster shell bits? I know you might say that should be for breeders only to help them form their eggs. But that is also an excellent source of calisium, which is very good for healthy and strong bones. The flyers also have bones that need to be strong. Is there disadvantage or harm to give it to flyers? Your input would be greatly appreciated..Thanks.
Jay
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
330 posts
Nov 23, 2004
8:05 PM
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Jay, I give my kit birds grit about once a month or so. I don't let my birds go to the ground so I try to make sure they get some grit from time to time. They have a gizzard for a reason. As for the problem bird scenario, I wouldn't consider hard working birds that don't get their fair share to eat as being problems, only if a person is lazy and just wants to toss in feed and close the door. Paying attention is part of management and management is a diverse novel of endless chapters.
Brian.
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JUrbon
32 posts
Nov 23, 2004
8:15 PM
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Dito Brian, Jay you just keep culling those hard working hens and I will continue to cater to them because that is how you manage a team of birds. Even under the best of conditions all of the birds will not be of equal strength when they come down and it is up to you as a manager to do whatever you have to do to keep them in top form otherwise you could be culling the best you have for no reason other that a failure on your part to manage them properly. Joe Urbon
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redneckhippie15
75 posts
Nov 24, 2004
2:22 AM
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If I had a bird that was possibly a future breeder I would put out a special effort to make sure it gets enough to eat. In my loft I have two feeders that will feed 25 birds comfortably. I only have ten birds right now. If a bird gets run off from one there is another feeder with a slot open.
In an earlier thread it was mentioned by one of the "old timers" to always make sure one has enough slots in the feeder for more birds than one has. If you fulfill this requirement it would seem to me that you would not have to give any bird special treatment. I do have a question. If you have a |"bully" bird or two would`nt it make more sense to feed that bird individually than pull the bullied birds?
I have the "tray" feeders Jay was talking about. Takes longer to get out the tools than it does to build one.
once evreyone gets settled in it looks like pigs in a trough.
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Never watch you birds fly with your mouth open!
redneckhippie*blue dot lofts*
Last Edited by redneckhippie15 on Nov 24, 2004 2:32 AM
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J_Star
91 posts
Nov 24, 2004
4:43 AM
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Joe, Brian,
No one said to cull hard working rollers!! You can tell of a problem feeder when you see one. When my rollers come down after flight, I usually give them couple of min. to settle down on top of the house roof or the kit roof b4 calling them to feed. This way the birds settle down a bit. When they hit the kit box to eat, boy they all eat their fair share and they beg for some more. Every Kit has some hard working rollers and in my opinon, they should not be slow eaters.....rather, they should be ferocious when comes to eating because after a few times they realize that if they don't get their share they would lose until next day. This may not be true in other lofts, but I am only speaking from my own observations in my own loft..
Jay
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fhtfire
70 posts
Nov 24, 2004
2:02 PM
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J,
I have to agree with you. When my birds land and it is time for food, They are pushing through the trap 4 at a time. All you hear is the sound of beaks hitting wood feeders. I have never had a problem of one not getting enough food. If you have enough feeder space you should be fine...if a cock pushes a hen out well the hen just goes to the other feeder. I do check and handle all me birds after they eat and feel the crop and body...etc. Again, that is just my birds.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Mother lode lofts
307 posts
Nov 24, 2004
3:00 PM
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Rod if you have the time and the setup it would be ideal !!! And I know a few that do. I'm with Brian and Joe. If you don't get individual with the birds and know who's getting to much verses who's getting to little you are no doubt going to have some of the best going down on you. When I start tighting the screws on the A team I feed them in fives trying to keep them all on the same page (individual would be better). Plus some of the deeper harder working birds just plain need to be handled differantly as far as food. One of the biggest problems I see is just not big enough trays being used to feed a kit of birds. The strong end up with far to much and the others end up with to little and it's rare that the strong are your better performers. Bottom line is you need to learn how to manage the birds within the kit and as Brian said "there is more to it than throwing the feed in" there is nothing truer than that sentence.
Scott
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Mongrel lofts
19 posts
Nov 24, 2004
5:12 PM
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Hi Jay,
Enjoyed reading all the opinions on feeding individual kit birds.. Let me tell you one thing that is for sure,, if you have the time to feed your A team, individually, there is no better way.. I have a box as most know, that has 20 individuals on one side of the box.. the V perches lift to put the birds in the individuals from inside the kit box.. The draw back, is it takes work and time.. If you have the time and don't feed individually, you really are not trying to get the most out of the kit.. Usually, we just don't want to put in that much work, if we are honest..
This is what feeding in individuals does for your A team, and these are just a few of the pluses.. Every time you feed your team, you must handle every bird, one at a time,, this makes you feel the bird and take a read on its condition..
You control and make sure each bird, the strong and the weak, get what you think they need, its not random, its exact!!
You can inspect the crap from each bird in the individual, to help you understand how much moisture, and what condition they are in.. This help you control the amount of water you will give them, one at a time..
Some birds just do better on a different grain, I don't care if they are the same family.. You can control what kind of feed a certain bird does best on,, if your paying attention..
The last week, the birds only see each other while in the air, this adds stimulation to the kit excitement, when they are joined together for show Time!!
So my friends, in my opinion, just these things, are proof enough that individual feeding is the best way to go if you really want the most from your A team..
Truth is, its just more work, than most of us care to put out.. Not to mention more time than most of have to play roller.. No doubt in my mind though, it is the best way to learn how to condition a roller to top form,, Just my opinion,, Mongrel Lofts
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RodB
5 posts
Nov 24, 2004
5:43 PM
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Thanks fellas , enjoying the read , I have always enjoyed knowledgable people shooting the breeze :)
I do have the time and I reckon its got to give better results if you put on the white coat and really dedicate yourself to getting the best out of your birds , even though they are 1 kit they are really 20 individuals , when I trained dogs I would be meticulas in mixing an in training dogs ration , and would also weigh the dogs crap after that feed and weigh the dog daily , I knew exactly what was going in and coming out and what was asimulated , it allowed me to be so intune with the animal I knew instanly if something was amiss , no matter how slight .
I dont think I,ll bother with weighing bird dropings :), but Im in the process of building my kit boxes and was looking at building a system into the kit box that would allow me to individual feed automated kind of , I thought maybe a row of small cubicals on one side , where each cubical will fit just one bird in it , then have a opening that the bird can put his head out of to feed , because now the head is outside I can just deal out to each bird his ration and he cannot get any more or less than what have given him , at the back of thes cubicals is a door that will close the entire row once the birds are inside , a small lever in the front of the kit box will drop the doors , Im hoping this would allow me to isolate each bird in seconds , hense individual feeds with very little extra time in doing it .
Rod
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J_Star
92 posts
Nov 24, 2004
7:17 PM
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Good discussion everybody, and I would like to take this opportunity and wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving.. Enjoy the Turkey!!
Also, can anybody shed some light on the grit and the crushed oyster shell for the kit birds. Brian said that he feed his birds grit once a month. Is that enough? I am just wondering. Thanks..
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Nov 24, 2004 7:26 PM
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JUrbon
33 posts
Nov 25, 2004
10:28 AM
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Rod I am not going to try to tell you how to feed your birds grit but I will tell you what works for me. I just merely toss a couple cups of grit on top of my kit boxes every couple monthes and the birds take it they need it. My stock birds on the other hand have grit in front of them all the time as well as my hens get calcium gluganate on a regular basis. Just what works for me Rod.
Also Rod I have used both the red grit and the oyster shell and to me the birds seem to like the red grit better. Joe Urbon
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Mother lode lofts
309 posts
Nov 26, 2004
7:27 AM
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My kit birds get grit at least once a week. Coming up on a comp they wont see any though.
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redneckhippie15
80 posts
Nov 26, 2004
11:34 AM
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How much do you usually feed a bird that you are "feeding up"?
I have a rolldown I am trying to save, I am holding her in for a few days and feeding her individually 2-1-.5 wheat, milo,mix. She ate 2 tbsp in 15-20 mins. Should I give her more than that? Feed her til she explodes? I really need this bird to come around.
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Never watch your birds fly with your mouth open!
redneckhippie*blue dot lofts*
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Mongrel lofts
20 posts
Nov 26, 2004
2:46 PM
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Hippie,
If this bird is a roll down, nothing will save it,, If the bird is rolling down, because it is working to hard, and don't have the mental and physidal stregnth to fight the roll, this is what has worked for me..
Lock the bird up and feed it whole dent corn for one week, all it wants to eat.. Not pop corn, whole dent corn.. Feed the bird every day all it wants to eat for 7 days, then feed it a normal ration, day before you turn it loose,, If this don't top the rolling down, nothing will at this age.. SOme birds mature past rolling down, but who wants them anyway? FOr that matter, who wants a roll down of any kind? LOL I understand, if you are just wanting to keep a bird in the air, you enjoy seeing roll, but don't breed from this bird.. Mongrel Lofts
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