George R,
11 posts
Oct 28, 2004
7:11 PM
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I HAVE BEEN BREEDING MY BIRDS FOR 7 YEARS NOW AND I HAVE HAD A LOT OF FUN WITH THEM ,I HARDLY EVER GET ANY THAT ROLL DOWN (OR BUMP) WHEN THEY ARE HOVERING OVER THE ROOF OF MY HOUSE ,I DO GET A FEW THAT ROLLDOWN FROM HUNDREDS OF FEET IN THE AIR .
I RECENTLY AQUIRED SOME JACONETTS FROM A FREIND THEY ARE BREEDERS HE BRED FROM. I SEEN THE OFFSPRINGS FLY ,ANYWAY I HAVE HEARD THAT JACS DONT HAVE ANY CONTROL WHEN LANDING IS THIS TRUE?
AT MY HOUSE THERE IS NO ROOM FOR ERROR WHEN HOVERING IF THEY ROLL DOWN THEY WILL BE DEAD THERES TO MUCH CONCRETE .
I JUST DONT WANNA WASTE MY TIME
THANKS GEORGE
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spintight
35 posts
Oct 28, 2004
7:56 PM
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It's never a for sure thing to speculate that just because they are jaconnettes they are unstable. It's best to ask the guy you got them from. All birds come down to the individual birds in a breeding program.
I have seen a lot of jac's that have stability problems and have seen a bunch of hi bred jac's that were outstanding and very stable.
The most common thing I have seen in them is rolling longevity. They seem to go infrequent as hold over birds, many get too much control and stop rolling altogher.
So you need to give them time to show what they have if you really plan to incorporate them in your program there. They might not be what you are looking for but with an honest effort you might be surprised but you'll never know until you try.
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J_Star
57 posts
Oct 29, 2004
5:58 AM
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George,
You need to remember that the name Jaconette is used as a marketing tool today like all other families. It all depends on who breed them, what other families were crossed with them and all that goes with a particuler breed. All my birds are Jaconettes/Plano and Smith, breed best to best, and they have a very good control. They are frequent as they should be, most in the range of 30-40' and some are deeper. A few of them roll sometimes as they are coming down but they have alot of control doing it and they roll shorter when decending. Thus far none has hit the roof of the house or the ground as they roll coming down. I noticed with my birds that they perform alot better when they are fed properly, meaning that if they were very hungry b4 fly, they are sluggish and roll dangerously close to the ground, assuming with control since never bounced off the ground, because they would not fly higher as they normaly do and they fly for a shorter period. Sometimes I change things around to test them and push them harder and see how they perform in those conditions, such as with less feed, extremely fed, oily grains, very windy day, a young hawlk around the neighberhood, fly them for continuos two hours and verious conditions to see how they handle it and their behavior accommodating the situation.
What I am trying to say is that Jaconette is just a name, and you need to examine yours to see where they fit. Best of luck..
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Oct 29, 2004 6:20 AM
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Siddiqir
119 posts
Oct 29, 2004
8:16 AM
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Interesting to read the article below as it talks about R. Jaconette family of rollers. This statement is from the article "Eight out of the top ten fanciers' breed and fly the Jaconette/Reed" which to me sounds like they are great birds to work with as they already proven because "Top Ten Fanciers" lofts house those birds.
S. Calif. Roller Assoc. NEWSLETTER
More websites and information on Jaconette family of rollers
Revolutions Per Second
Revolutions Birmingham Roller Clubs of Western Washington
I believe most of the guys in the W. Washington club fly Jaconette family of rollers.
As far as roll downs, in my experience all families of rollers produces roll downs not sure if it a function of feed or genetic problem
Last Edited by Siddiqir on Oct 29, 2004 8:17 AM
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Mother lode lofts
272 posts
Oct 29, 2004
3:43 PM
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Rauf as for the eight out of ten. Thats S. California and those numbers certainly doesn't reflect accross the country. As for Western Washington I don't remember seeing any Jaconette kit's other than Gary Stephens And I judged from Oregan to B.C. Canada, I'm not saying that there isn't any more out there but North West coast have had it's own share of of good famiies such as Bruce Cooper, Bill Shreiber (sp),Monty Neible, John Weins, Clint Hollinssworth just to name a few out that neck of the woods. As for N. California I know very few that fly those birds. There is scattering of guys that do well with them accross the country but they certainly don't dominate. Personally I have seen very few good kits of these birds except for in S. California where I saw some good kits of these birds. When I saw these I was judging the Calif. state fly of which Jerry Higgens won, and he had some fine birds that go back that direction. There is not this family or that family that dominates anything. And there certainly are no shortcuts. What pushes a loft towards the right direction are the right particular bird or birds within the loft from whatever family it may be out of that has it all,produces it all, and the offspring produces birds that produce. Then the flier has to learn how to manage the little suckers to get the most out of them. But one thing that seems pretty universal about these birds is holding up into the second year.
just my opinion
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Oct 29, 2004 3:48 PM
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J_Star
58 posts
Oct 29, 2004
4:00 PM
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Scott,
Please expand on the last sentence in your post. Thanks.
Jay
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Mother lode lofts
276 posts
Oct 30, 2004
8:17 AM
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Jay, Reed/Jac birds are bred to be full of roll and to come into it fast,hard and early. Now that might sound good at first but it also creates it's own set of problems in form of many problem birds,many of these birds end up dead or are so full of roll that they just learn to shut it off completly once they mature a bit. On the latter I'm not sure if they if different managment would be needed or if they shut down and quit no matter what. But what I think happens is they have so many more coming in fast and hot so early that they just don't want to mess with the ones that shut it down. That is just speculation of coarse. Bobby Bradley told me that basicly they have to give the kit all they want of a rich mix and fly them daily to keep them in the air. Dennis Hayes out of Idaho went to this line of birds and told me that at first everything was killing it's self, but he found one particular hen that gave him some stability and started working around her. I'm not sure if he's taken them where they last as old birds or not. But one thing that he told me that kinda stuck with me was "I would rather work around a family with too much roll verses one that had too little of roll" (makes sence to me). Many of the guys that fly these birds rarely have the same A teams from fly to fly where as my A team stays consistant unless I loose some birds or stock some birds, or other birds are better than some that are in the A team and you end up with a promotion and a demotion LOL. What I see with those birds is that they are like any other but must be handled in a particular way that keeps them in the air for the most part,and I'm sure it takes a real knack to be constantly putting together teams that work well. Jay keep in mind that much of what I put here is speculation on my part and nothing more. And there are many others that fly these birds that I have gone into some detail with but I don't know them well enough to use their names. All of these guys that I have mentioned can fly some very good birds but like any other lines out there in the wrong hand they are pure garbage.
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Oct 30, 2004 8:27 AM
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George Ruiz
20 posts
Oct 30, 2004
4:48 PM
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Scott the jacs ive seen here in So.Cal. have a ton of roll and are very frequent they break and they dont need to set up to break again they just explode BUT from what Ive seen is that the quality of the roll is not as good as the O.G. pensom,s thats just my opinion ,then the O.G. pensom,s need to set up to roll this making them not as frequent .
Can you tell me what you think about my opinion
Thanks
George
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Mother lode lofts
279 posts
Oct 30, 2004
7:44 PM
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George qaulity suffers in any over frequent kit, it's like they don't fully commit to cut it loose. One thing that I have seen with those kits that really caught my attention is they can start out with decent qaulity and then It's like the qaulity just goes down hill rather quickly like they are wearing themselfs down. As for your assesment, I thought it was right on the money but there are exceptions depending on the condition of the kit at the time.
Scott
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redneckhippie15
57 posts
Oct 31, 2004
7:46 AM
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What does one do with birds that seemingly fight the roll?
I have a couple of birds that kinda stutter when they roll. It`s like they can`t get it all out before they pull up so they go again. usually 3-4 spins then another 3-4.
I`m trying to get em fine tuned so I can pick breeders.
I have a post on the feed thread related to this one.
Thanks guys
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Never watch you birds fly with you mouth open!
redneckhippie*blue dot lofts*
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highroller
48 posts
Oct 31, 2004
8:06 AM
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Red,
I have had birds that do the same thing. A few of them can hang with the kit and I let them continue flying with the kit to see if they develop into a better roller. Some can not keep up with the kit because of this constant "stuttering". If they continue to do this after feeding and resting them up and ruling out any other factors under my control, such as parasites, they get culled. Bear in mind that these were birds that had done this for a few months, not ones that just started doing it. I try to give them time to come around. If I were strictly into competition I might have culled them earlier, concerned that they would affect the whole kit.
Dan
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JUrbon
22 posts
Oct 31, 2004
9:23 AM
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Hey Kenny I won't try to tell you what all birds are doing or for that matter yours but I do know mine. I have noticed over the years that if I have a young bird that just has to get that extra flip or two in befor he heads back to the kit then more times than not that bird has not reached its full depth yet. In almost 100% of the time with my birds they will get a little bit deeped if they add another flip after they stop. Knowing that you are flying primarily young birds than I would wait it out and see unless you are having hawk problems like the rest of us this time of year. Otherwise go with your gut feeling, It's your first season and believe me you will learn something new every year about these incredible birds so just enjoy them. Joe Urbon
Last Edited by JUrbon on Oct 31, 2004 9:24 AM
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redneckhippie15
58 posts
Oct 31, 2004
6:31 PM
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Thanks Guys
I will continue to fly them to see if it shakes out.
I was told in my position not to cull anything rolling til 18 mos.
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Never watch you birds with you mouth open!
redneckhippie*blue dot lofts*
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