truword1
10 posts
Oct 11, 2004
11:40 PM
|
Hey guys, I was hoping to get some advise from you. Well I raised a really awesome hen this year that rolls about 40ft with some great speed (fast)....... Well the question is that this hen is a soft featered bird and I'm not sure on how to breed here or if I even should. What do you thing about soft feathered birds? All info and advise would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
John
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
279 posts
Oct 12, 2004
4:01 PM
|
If you like her, which it sounds like you do, mate her to a harder feathered bird like a red check or blue check that is similar in peformance.
Brian.
|
Leo
5 posts
Oct 22, 2004
4:47 PM
|
John, the bird you speak of being soft feather is a credit to you. It is a PRIZE to keep and breed out of. The bird is telling you that by her sheer performance.... Do not mistake soft feathers for poor quality, as far as breeding her Do not breed her to any hard feathered mate ...this bird is showing you QUALITY ... Dont Loose It The parents of this bird can start a family by linebreeding and selective breeding, If you had a loft of them you would be a tough cookie to be rekoned with .......I am an old timer Keep the good work.
|
Steve S.
10 posts
Oct 22, 2004
6:03 PM
|
Hello list,
Explain to me why a soft feathered bird is not desireable.
The physical make up is it weak muscled or what?
I have seen good and bad in both.
By the way Leo I saw Joe Roe today and he said him and Bill Berry stoped at Harrys from time to time as they went up to Ralph Bakers in Dayton.
I told him what you said about Harry.
What is your last name? I didn't know who to tell Joe that was telling me about Harry except Leo.
Later
Steve
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
290 posts
Oct 22, 2004
8:24 PM
|
Steve, I don't believe a soft feathered bird is weak muscled, but more commonly of weaker character. You usually see soft feathered birds in recessive reds or blacks and the occasional blue bar or check that is lacking color modifiers or grease quill. I think what many refer to as hard feathered birds are those with hard, tight feathering that is super smooth almost like their body feathers are skin. A soft feathered bird usually is more 'fluffy' in comparison. Again you will usually see this in recessive reds, especially from an inbred family. I think that over time flyers have noticed similarities in a combination of features which summarizes a definitive opinion about what they see. The most common being that a large percentage of soft feathered birds are weak in character to a varying degree. I know of countless breeders who balance bred using the soft feathered birds to the hard feathered birds and their results are pretty impressive.
Brian.
|
Leo
7 posts
Oct 23, 2004
11:59 AM
|
Steve, last time i talked to Ralph Baker something was going wrong in his life, bacause he said he just killed a 55 gallon drum full of pigeons, thats been yrs ago ive never heard from him again. I kinda get a charge out of these Roller pages Its like a arguement over politics, I know that Bill Pensom stresses the way these birds should feel in his writings 3 times on two pages. The champion birds i owned of Bills were pure silk, soft as cotton out of different familys, Stan Plona sent me the $350..47..1232 family these birds were also very soft of excellent feather. This family is the Fastest spinning birds i have ever seen any where, his lavenders were the same silky feathered as was Smiths birds I still have a Smith name band of long ago, I dont know why someone would call them weak character, I have birds that i have line bred with 514 on the papers 64 times, the birds are excellent pigeons, they spin good as any, they are very silky, If any birds were weak character it would be these, but i can assure you they are gorgous birds.......last name STETSON TAKE CARE.
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
291 posts
Oct 23, 2004
8:41 PM
|
Leo, it is possible your definition of soft feathered is different than how many commonly use the term. A silky soft feel in the hand isn't because of soft feathering, it is because of good hard feathering coupled with good health, lots of bloom and general fitness. Soft feathered birds are actually rather course in the hand, yet their feathering not rigid.
Brian.
|
Mother lode lofts
249 posts
Oct 25, 2004
9:51 AM
|
Exactly Brian I think that the confusion is in what is considered soft or hard feather,you explained it well.
|
redneckhippie15
46 posts
Oct 25, 2004
5:00 PM
|
I have been reading this and wondering. What the actual compostion of the feather would be. Would it be like the strands in the feather are not "zipped", a little looser weave to it? My birds look like they have been shot with a coat of lacquer and then lightly sanded with a sheet of 1200, a bit of a mat finish with a hard water repellant "shell". I would assume this is a "hard feathered bird.
----------
redneckhippie*blue dot lofts*
|
J_Star
49 posts
Oct 25, 2004
5:05 PM
|
Kenny, That means they are healthy. When pigeons in general are healthy, you will find the glossy look.
Jay
|
Leo
9 posts
Oct 25, 2004
5:05 PM
|
Brian, sorry but i fail to understand what you are saying you say... Soft feel is because of HARD feathering??? then , SOFT feathered birds feel course??? now Scott agrees and says well done,..But it doesnt take much to make him happy Your DESCRIPTION does not in any way fit my birds.......LEO
|
Mother lode lofts
252 posts
Oct 25, 2004
5:13 PM
|
And that means what Leo ? Why don't you give us a dicription
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Oct 25, 2004 5:15 PM
|
nicksiders
88 posts
Oct 25, 2004
8:10 PM
|
Scott - Leo has told us where to get the description and evidently feels the description that Bill Pensom gave is the proper description. I will hopefully get to it soon.
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
294 posts
Oct 25, 2004
9:35 PM
|
Leo, its simple. Look at your birds. Do they have a smooth, tight shell with the feathering on the shield and body tightly compacted or are they loose feathered with gaps and ragged edges to the ends of the feathering, most predominantly in the back cover area? If your birds are silky smooth and almost so slippery they seem like they can almost slide right out of your hand..that is a sign of hard feathering. Soft feathered birds don't feel this way. Once you have handled enough pigeons you will see and feel the difference. Descriptions in words and descriptions discovered in the hand are two totally different things unless someone can hand you two different birds and show you the difference.
Brian.
|
Leo
12 posts
Oct 26, 2004
10:48 AM
|
Brian, Mabe i should tell you, I was born in Cinti, Ohio THE HOTBED OF THE ROLLER KINGDOM AT THAT TIME, my father was a roller man before i was born. In 1941 i handeled my first pigeon a black bald ROLLER. MY father was the master judge at the shows, in those days Baldheads were concidered top of the line. All the oldtimers including my DAD are long gone now, I am now an oldtimer, I hesitate to offer my knowledge or asistance to fanciers who try to twist words to make some one look wrong. Believe me IAM no expert, can you IMAGINE how many birds Ive handeled since 1941.....1941...I simply say soft , silky, the flights are very FLEXABLE could be bent nearly 90 degrees, tail also. Iam sure all the guys understand what Iam saying. YOU appear to be trying to make a big issue of these words SOFT SILKY ..To be honest i see many of your answers to be incorrect, but i never dispute them. WHY because i really appreciate you an SCOTTS wonderfull ENTHUSIASM I mean this in the KINDEST WAY...Watch them oldtimers sometimes they bite before wagging their tails TAKE CARE ,,,LEO
|
J_Star
51 posts
Oct 26, 2004
11:13 AM
|
Leo,
Thanks for telling us about yourself. We appreciate all your input and please continue spreading your wisdom as we all like to hear more from your life excpreinces with this hobby. Also remember that as human, we all have openions and some of us are hard about their openions and maybe others who don't care about any but their own. We all like to share our thoughts and excperiences with each other when we can, but if we all agree on everything, then we would not have anything to talk about! Then we might considering talking about Bush Vs. Kerry(LOL).
Anyhow, you don't need to agree with alot of fanciers but state what you think and we all will listen to both sides of the argument and our common sence will get us there. Thanks.
Jay
|
Leo
13 posts
Oct 26, 2004
1:42 PM
|
JAY, You are correct in what you say, You should watch us guys and be our referee LOL . I guess i expect every body to know old times, as well as the old Masters. I could write a book on some the old characters and things ive seen. To be honest i am concidering moving off these pages and let you young guys carry on ....TAKE CARE ..LEO
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
295 posts
Oct 26, 2004
2:06 PM
|
Leo, go up to your post on October 23rd and tell me who started this SOFT and SILKY topic??? Tell you what Champ, you have things your way and I'll have them mine. If in the 60+ years you have been handling rollers you can't tell the difference between hard feathered and soft feathered, there is no sense even carrying on another conversation with you about it, either you get it or you don't. I suspect if we handled the same birds we would agree on the same results. Oh and if it has managed to escape you, I too find so much falsehood in your comments as well. Sounds like we are both full of shit now doesn't it Pop.
Brian.
|
Leo
14 posts
Oct 26, 2004
4:37 PM
|
Brian, sorry you are so upset, my description of the birds was mine.PERIOD. Youve been trying to ..split hairs.. ever since WHY??? I am really sorry ....YOU WIN... Iknow you are Number 1 one and iam sure many others think you are also .Please understand iam NO threat to you, your VAST KNOWLEDGE and ATTITUDE would overwhelm the normal roller breeder. I am being very serious IF i put a roller in a sock and all you can see is the head sticking out of a hole at the toe, COULD YOU tell me if it was soft feathered bird yes or no??? If you answer yes please explain....this is no joke Ill be waiting for a serious answer TAKE CARE LEO
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
296 posts
Oct 26, 2004
5:01 PM
|
Upset? LOL. Not a chance dude! I am wondering why it is that you think that I or anyone else who explains what something like hard or soft feather is is spliting hairs? Strange charma you have going on there Leo. I am not number one and could care less what anyone else thinks about the words I jot down in a post or the words I would say to your face. If during a discussion I offer my Understanding of Principals learned through experience and taught by a vast number of veteran flyers who have actually proven their theories to be correct, does that make someone Number One or possibly one antagonizing your opinion? This "oh your vast knowledge and attitude" malarky reeks of resentment towards anything that doesn't correspond with your 60 years of experience.
To answer your question about the sock, first I have to wonder why you would put a pigeon in a sock and expect to determine the feather quality by looking at its head and toes? Sounds pretty stupid to me, maybe one of those old, old, old timer tricks you read about. But hey, I'm yer huckleberry. First, if it had a recessive red head, I'm gonna say soft feathered, odds in my favor. If it had an ash red or dark blue head, yep, probably hard feathered, odds probably in my favor. But if I held the bird in the sock in my hand, if it had a hard, dense feeling then chances are it would also be a hard feathered bird. If it felt mushy then chances are it would be soft feathered. But ultimately it wouldn't derive anything other than guesses as a bird in the hande does not equal a bird in the sock! Oh wait, let me guess, in your vast years of dissecting the nuances of roller breeding and flying you figured out how to tell feather quality by putting a pigeon in a sock? Please explain your findings on this matter Leo. I am always open to exploring new territory. Man this get funner by the minute. Keep um coming Leo! LOL.
Brian.
|
redneckhippie15
49 posts
Oct 26, 2004
5:10 PM
|
Geez Guys,
I haven`t seen so much testosterone since I was at the 9th annual Artificial Insemination Convention in New Mobeetie.
Lighten up guys. Leo If it weren`t for guys like you guys like Brian would`nt be here. Leo, how many guys have you gotten started since you,,,?,shit since you were born and old enough to hold a bird,
and you Brian? How many? Ever give away a shit bird?
We all have something to contribute, each of us should be free to consider each ones opinion and let others choose their own. If you guys wanna fight do it e-mail.
I personally don`t care too much for it.
----------
Never watch you birds with you mouth open!
redneckhippie*blue dot lofts*
|
Leo
15 posts
Oct 26, 2004
5:31 PM
|
SIR BRIAN, thank you for another caustic post,I did not say any thing about toes?? or touching the sock ......And i thank you for participating in the game, I am quite suprised YOU LOST...any color is included. The head takes on a distinct character, I will give you an answer next round ...TAKE CARE ..LEO
|
J_Star
53 posts
Oct 26, 2004
7:13 PM
|
Dear Kenny,
It is passed that point...(lol). Set back and watch the show... I read all the posts in regard to the soft vs. hard feather thing, and read them many time over to see what started all this crap. With all the meditating that I tried to do to slow the trend of this, I came to conclude that all this attacks are steming only and only from jeoulesy of Scott and Brain and the like. Boys, you are tough enough to finish it. What an excitement!!!!
Leo, allot of us here never met one another. Only our writings in these post sets an impresion about ourselves with the others online. My dad tought me from young age that if I don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all. You could have chosen this route and the story would have been over long ago. You want this confrentation to go on, and you guys would only be giving him what he wants if you continue...If you choose to continue, then I am going to get me a six pack and set in front of the PC and enjoy this...(lol)
Best regard to all and enjoy. Never in my wildest dream thought that this is going to beat the color thingy you guys had going a while back. WOW
Jay
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
298 posts
Oct 26, 2004
7:32 PM
|
Leo, Leo, Leo. To lose, win or draw, the subject matter would have to have something of substance wouldn't it?LOL. Of course you can always say soft is this and hard is that while I will say that my opinion is in line with yours or completely the opposite. The bottom line is this Pop. Hard feather is hard feather and soft feather is soft feather. Do a poll of anyone has ever bred a successful family (Not one still clinging to the band number of a bird that died 40+ years ago) and ask them what the difference is. That is your assignment should you choose to accept it. Otherwise I assume you will continue to think that each and every person who offers substance that can be proven is attacking you or dissecting your comments or I can only imagine what you would come up with next. Here it is for you again Leo lest you failed to get the point way, way back up near the top of the thread. Hard feather is hard of strength, yet smooth and very refined. Soft feather is soft and loose, often ragged for a variety of reasons. If your birds are what you think are soft, then by all means keep doing what you are doing. If you have a diffence of opinion on the breeding practice of soft or hard feathered birds, then by all means keep on doing it, or maybe even tell us your results. And don't go preachin' Pensom wrote. Tell us what you think. God gave you a brain, use it and tell us why you think your version of a soft feathered bird is a better roller than a hard feathered one. Only thing I could possibly come up with to support that would be typically hard feathered birds can be stiff and high flying whereas soft feathered birds tend to be frequent and wear out quickly. Hum, mate hard to soft and MAYBE you'll get a happy medium. Sounds pretty familiar to me. Have a very nice day.
Your Friend Always.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Oct 26, 2004 7:33 PM
|
Leo
16 posts
Oct 27, 2004
8:24 AM
|
SIR, BRIAN, I got a phone call, they want to make a movie SOFT vs HARD ..I told them ...NO PORN..LOL ...TO answer the quiz is..EYE CERE.. it becomes very very fine on inbred linebred and blooded birds, another charatistic will show up on inbred birds, But thats another story. Brian, iwas telling Steve about the feathers an band nos of the old birds ihad. Thats when you started this whole mess. I was not Preachimg band NOs at no time, But for your enjoyment i will....1233..255..119..230..5585..3738..7001 not for sale at any price..3757..220..145..4220..I know you hate this there many many more if you want them, if you want ill tell you which are hens and which are cocks. The last was 2564 r ch banded .These are all...514....But who cares...LEO
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
302 posts
Oct 27, 2004
11:04 AM
|
Leo, you are right, I absolutely 100 percent don't care. Dead pigeons can't fly and dead fanciers who bred them can't talk. Maybe that would make a better movie since we are all so desensitized. Of course it's probably just me. What makes you think that fine eye cere is an indicator of soft feather? I know of many GREAT inbred families, some inbred almost too much, and they have hard feather with large, course eye cere, the kind of eye cere you typically see on a family that consistently throws super fast spinners. Leo, I'm listening. Prove it. Convince me your analysis is correct and leave old Willy P and whatever he said out it. Break of some that Leo Learned-It and teach us something dude..lol.
Brian.
|
Leo
20 posts
Oct 27, 2004
11:42 AM
|
YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER,.........BUT THIS ONE IS BLIND >>>AND CANT HEAR.....
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
303 posts
Oct 27, 2004
12:16 PM
|
Come'on Leo old buddy, bust off the with info on the eye cere man. Don't be shy, I seriously want to know how it is you come up with this stuff. Give me your email and I will send you a pic of a super, super inbred 514 hard feathered bird with course, large eye cere, just like the rest in the family. Could be an inherent trait in that family, could be something else. I have seen it over and over again in other lofts of this same inbred background. Oh, and by the way, creep on up to the top of this thread, read and then rethink who started what. You have a subtle way of focusing blame on anyone who doesn't agree or offers information different than yours. Sounds like your horse is just a aging cripple in denial.LOL.
Brian.
|
Leo
21 posts
Oct 27, 2004
12:56 PM
|
Brian, you cant get over it, YOU met your match .....an old one.....YOU have NO RESPECT for no one , ... You MUST have the last word.....but once again you loose you hear,you loose. period....i will have the say here ...here goes.............LAST WORD
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
304 posts
Oct 27, 2004
1:10 PM
|
Stop being a candy ass and answer the questions or politely chill out. You are right, I have no respect...for half of what you say, but do have respect for you standing up for what you believe in, though I have yet to understand what that is. Come on, give me your email so I can send you this pic and you tell me what you think. Otherwise we can continue this on another day. Curious why you think there must be a winner or a looser. Must be how you measure things in your life. Some of us aren't so petty.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Oct 27, 2004 3:31 PM
|
Mother lode lofts
260 posts
Oct 27, 2004
4:38 PM
|
Eye cere now there's another good topic LOL, My birds are very inbreed and I allmost never see a bird in the stock loft with "fine " eye cere. Generally this is a sign of to much wealth of feather which normally does mean a soft feathered bird,and wealth of feather means resistance. None of which is consistant of a well bred performance bird. just my opinion.
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Oct 27, 2004 8:48 PM
|
Birdman
13 posts
Oct 27, 2004
7:09 PM
|
Leo, I would like to have a top pair of your birds to study and breed from next year. Do you have a pair you would be willing to share?
Russ
|
Mother lode lofts
264 posts
Oct 27, 2004
8:58 PM
|
So what have we learned here, one side says that birds with a wealth of feathers that are soft, that roll blood in the eye should be prized, and the other says that that the better birds have the feather tight to the body with a smooth silky feel and that birds that roll blood in the eye should be culled because they can't hold up. hmmmm pretty interesting stuff
|
Leo
24 posts
Oct 28, 2004
8:55 AM
|
We would like to thank you for flying YOUR family of birds for us, my wife said she could see the eye cere from the ground, I told her it was from the ....V....formation they were flying in,thanks again..OH I almost forgot ... howcome some of them had numbers and letters under their wings???????.
|
Mother lode lofts
265 posts
Oct 28, 2004
11:10 AM
|
Leo, at one time did you do much showing ?
|
Leo
26 posts
Oct 28, 2004
2:41 PM
|
Tissue Scott, You are saying on this page that a bird having a WEALTH of feathers offers more resistance... YOU ARE WRONG..I FLEW th best WHITTINGHAMS and FIREBALL ROLLERS money could buy, these bird had feather like no other some tail feathers over ,inch an a quarter wide, yet the birds were not much bigger than my PEMSOMS, wide secondaries I can tell you talk about action Man they really rolled and deep often .. continous ACTION ..resistance..was no where. In fact they were more fun by far than other rollers, They needed cultivated because there extreme roll took its toll, and eventuly they seemed to vanish. OF corse i expect you to read this and concider the information qqqqqqquite valuable.
|
Mother lode lofts
268 posts
Oct 28, 2004
3:58 PM
|
Leo don't know much about those lines but have heard by many that I trust that there was much to be desired as far as qaulity out of the old FireBall line and I also heard that they were deep but rolled like shit. Never heard about the feather until now but sounds pretty much in line as far as birds with an over abundance of feather. I think that there's a reason that those old lines have all but died out in this country. I did see a couple in a loft or two when I was judging the East coast a couple of years ago but they just had a couple of them and werent working out of them.I have seen very very few out here on the West coast.
Scott Campbell
|
Leo
27 posts
Oct 28, 2004
5:43 PM
|
Scott, Ive shure had a LOL Fireing u guys up, Dont be sore about it, I loved the reaction i got. but what isaid was through all of it ,is surely true. There is to many years between us 30 at least. as far as the FIREBALL rollers I was great friends with the originator of FIREBALL himself A recessive red broach cock .MR, JIM GRAHAM ,HE taught me a bunch about rollers, I got birds from him also from DOC NORDLAND a purest in FIREBALLS ...I know you wont believe me but these birds could spin with PENSOMS all day long and deeper overall, It was just tough for most guys to see them Hit...Thus PENSOM. All they needed was cultivated. I still have 11 of them that are priceless to me, Yellow whiteside yellow motts 4 red motts ....AS far as Whittinghams they were as good as Pensoms.,, The late LESS MANNS called his birds Whittinghams ,,i can tell you Bill Pensom had a few that were bred into his mix,,THATS HOW GOOD THEY WERE....i KNOW` where some of Les Manns are..still being bred pure
|
Mother lode lofts
271 posts
Oct 29, 2004
7:38 AM
|
Not sore at all old gummer. I enjoyed your discription of the old fire balls and it pretty much reaffirms what I have been told about them by many. Leo you are fun to have around and I truely mean that but nor do I take you to serious.
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Oct 29, 2004 8:40 AM
|
Leo
28 posts
Oct 30, 2004
7:47 AM
|
Nicksiders, Thanks for at least looking in the book,I found out its impossable to try to educate Ignorance, Look on page 65 bott. on pg 66.. It is repeated 4 times, read 66 closely word for word, and you will understand what i tried to tell these...KNOW IT ALLS ....on pg 85 the 514 hen, two years after this picture she was mated to her nephew they produced the finest cock ever bred in this country W.H.P. quote. the FABULOUS......60..119..hewas dk ck pearl eyed very fine eye cere, perfect in every way....TAKE CARE.....LEO
|
Mother lode lofts
277 posts
Oct 30, 2004
10:31 AM
|
OK Leo as one of the ignorant one's I'll bite. Silky plumage, yea we all agreed on that one. Then in the second paragraph on feather " The best are those that have JUST enough" he also states that a BADLY BALANCED pigeon cannot offer enough resistance in the air so more feather is better than too little. He also states that "to much is as bad as to little" He's kind of bouncing around a little between type and feather and I'm not positive that the last statement was in the proper context. Now lets talk the book and you "educating" us ingnorant one's. First off I hand on to every word that you say,I just don't agree with it is all, maybe if we standing in the same loft handling birds what you say may make sence to me,but in this forum,no way, plus the treasuring birds that roll blood in the eye definetly makes me a little suspect . Pensoms writings allways amaze me on the depth that he's able to go into and no doubt he was a master of the breed. But trying to put tid bits of information in writing is just that "tid bits" and trying to decifer this stuff to any degree is impossible. To think that you or anyone else can educate anyone in writings alone on this breed is nothing more than egotistcal (did I get that one right LOL). The only thing that can be done is give out tidbits of what you,I, or anyone else finds to be true and in no way does it make it gospal as the only real educating can be done in the "right" lofts and standing under the "right" kit's with the "right" people. And then you do that when ever and where ever you can. From there you learn from your own birds. Some of the stuff you have been told you will find meaningless and some of it you will find merit in. But in the end the birds that you able to put in the air that can do it right become the bottom line.
On that eye cere on that bird Leo. That is what I'm talking about. so we are either on the same page here or you need to take a closer look. I wasn't referring to birds with eye cere like a Short Faced Tumbler. And my own experiance is that I would rather have a bird with a tad not enough feather that too much. I didn't learn that out of a book or from someone else Leo. Anything that I write here evolves around what I know about "my" birds and I dont claim to know constants that evolve around other peoples birds, although I do have opinions and some will find merit in some of them and some of them will find that they are meaningless. And my own opinions are subject to change at times.
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Oct 30, 2004 11:44 AM
|
Leo
30 posts
Oct 30, 2004
12:22 PM
|
HI Scotty, Sounds like you are upset with me again, Iam glad to see you agree with me on the feather issue, I see you are trying to disagree with me but cant, then you try to down grade MR PENSOM and his lifetime of work, then try to downgrade his book?? The eye cere i refer to was 514 son, please reread. ...What i have been trying express is ...This is what takes place on good blooded birds ............. If you are not getting the results i speak of...FINE...like you said there YOUR BIRDS ..if they make you happy ...IT TICKLES ME PINK ....
|
Mother lode lofts
278 posts
Oct 30, 2004
12:43 PM
|
Now Leo why would I be upset with you ? What ever you "think" that you might of read out of my post or out of what was written about feather or lack of, well what can I say Leo except that I have a bloody forehead from banging my head against the wall LOL. I'm titty pink here also buddy. Educate away Grand Pubah.
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Oct 30, 2004 12:45 PM
|
Leo
31 posts
Oct 30, 2004
1:36 PM
|
Hey Scotty, You are an absolute TREASURE ..I bet if we lived close together we would be..the very best of friends.It would be constant laughs, because ill be the first to laugh at myself, this makes for great fun, Please forbid if we ever got Drunk together i know we would wind up in jail..lol carefull with the forehead alcohol burns... LEO
|
