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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive > Scratch Grain Been Getting a Bad Rap?
Scratch Grain Been Getting a Bad Rap?



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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4167 posts
Aug 16, 2010
3:04 PM
Just a quick little story: I had mixed a bag of 16% pellets and scratch grain and was feeding this to a new young bird team. Guess what? They were not doing well with it; only flying about 10 or 15 minutes. Needless to say, I was a bit frustrated but I knew it was my fault they were not flying very long since I was feeding a 50/50 percentage of 16% pellets and scratch. I decided that I made them fat from too much protein so I knew I needed to get them on a lower percentage and then start them on to a super-duper carbo-boost plan for several days with the expectation that they would be knocked sideways with the change.

I also wanted to see what would happen if I did it on the cheap with chicken scratch only. Now a full bag of wheat is a bit pricey at $11.75 for a 50lb bag AND a 50lb bag of milo at $6.30. I didn’t feel like spending $18 to carbo-load my birds. So I just used a bag of chicken scratch that I already had that cost me $7.50 and so saved about $10. Scratch has a very small percentage of wheat and cracked corn but I wanted the carbo-boost provided in the milo.

Within several days of being on this new cheap diet, the birds were flying on average of 90 minutes. I know most of you guys don’t like to feed cracked corn, but I do and the birds look fine and actually seem more energetic (which has little to do with the corn). This team is flying much higher than they were and also much longer.

Since most of the birds in this team were young birds and still building muscle, bone and feather, I have included about 4 ounces of 16% protein pellets to 24 ounces of the scratch grain for a total of 28 ounces for 21 birds.

I like what I am seeing. As of this writing, this team is flying well, kitting and working together as a team. Next I will start slowly reducing the ration so that I get them down to about 45 minutes. I may even consider flying them twice a day a couple times a week just to speed up their development.

Overall, my little experiment saved myself some money, got my birds flying much longer and even straightened out 2 birds that liked to land a bit too early. I can’t top that!
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria


The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1969 posts
Aug 16, 2010
4:12 PM
Tony, I have come to the conclusion the only way to get "my" birds to all react the same is first in the brood loft. We have had that discussion. Secondly by insuring that all of the birds have the opportunity to eat exactly the same. I have moved to feeding nothing but pellets. To insure every bird has the amount it requires, I like to see a few pellets left over on the tray.
So far, they are flying, 1.5 to 2 hours, kitting very tight, and their performance has not improved but has not degraded. They look healthy and seem full of energy with clear eyes. The only draw back I have found is during the molt I like to give them a little oil on some seed but this does not work well with the pellets. I think I will give them some safflower seed as a treat during the molt. Cost is a consideration but there is very little waste with pellets unlike with a pigeon mix where much is lost during the scrabble while feeding.

Just my take on it
Take care my friend
Thom
donnie james
1134 posts
Aug 16, 2010
4:59 PM
hay tony and tony,
some time back about 15 years ago or so i heard a guy won a major fly just on crack corn i for got hes name and i can't remember either where he lived at

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Donny James
"Fly The Best And Cull The Rest"
"Saying One Thing;Doing Its Another"
"Keep Your Head Planted In The Sky And Wings Spanned Wide"
1996 Piedmont Roller Club Lifetime Achievement Recipient
Portsmouth Roller Club Participation Award System Recipient 1994 '96 '97 And 2000
2001 Limestone,Ohio Sportsman's Club Lifetime Member Recipient
2002Portsmouth Roller Club Certified Judge
2004Portsmouth Roller Club Lifetime Member Recipient
"Miss Portsmouth"NBRC/90/J311 Rusty Dun Check Self Hen First Bird To Get Certified In Portsmouth Roller Club History With A Score Of 53 Judge By Joe Roe The 1993 World Cup Winner And John Bender The 1994 World Cup Winner
George R.
378 posts
Aug 16, 2010
5:05 PM
Tony

several oldtimers have told me that they Fly useing only the Scratch feed and that thier Birds do just fine.

I also think that Scratch feed has got a bad rap . If Ifed scratch I would just make sure that I store the scratch feed in a moisture proof conatainer so the caracked corn does not get any mildew.
Raul Carreiro
95 posts
Aug 16, 2010
5:30 PM
Tony, I too used to feed scrath mixed with chicken layer pellets! The only problem was it is really hot and humid here during the summer and I found the cracked corn would absorb a lot of moisture due to the humidity and go full of mildew no matter how I woud store It! A 50Lb bag here is $20, 50lb of wheat $28, milo $22.A 50lb bag of commercial pigeon mix 12% $37!
1 gal of gas $14.62! These prices are in US dollars!
Raul.
fhtfire
2633 posts
Aug 16, 2010
7:53 PM
Tony,

Chicken Scratch is crap feed. That is why it is cheap. It is all the crap that does not meet the standards for other grain...the cracked corn..wheat that may or may not meet the standards for size, moisture content etc.

Chicken scratch is just that..it is fed to adult chickens to make them peck around and scratch..hence chicen scratch. Its just filler feed. Chickens are VERY hardy. They will eat people poop if you let them. Scratch is thrown out to keep the chickens happy.

Chicken scratch is NOT recommended for young chickens only adults chickens...and regular barn chickens that scratch in made for.....are not performance at all. Young birds need all the good stuff...not scratch...scratch is a supplemental to a good feed for layers etc.

The reason it is cheap...well...you get what you pay for.

Tony..several days is not enough for the body to react to a switch in feed. It takes a little longer for a reaction..unless you are juicing them with vitamins like Red Cell.....

I think your young birds were just having your bird days and flying low and high...Summer is the worst for updrafts and down drafts...and the weather patterns have been messed up....the jet stream is all out of wack right now..hence Packistan getting flooded etc.

Tony...my young birds had been flying super low and only about 15 minutes then one day they were up for 2 hours......four days ago..with a full ration of mix (pellet mix)...they were down in 18 minutes.....two days later....2 hours...go figure...nothing changed..Temp about the same...time about the same...but one day had weird cloud patterns one day did not...so maybe weather? maybe a couple birds?...

Scratch does have a bad rap...because it is made from scraps....

just my advice...but what do I know..LOL!!

rock and ROLL

Paul
nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4408 posts
Aug 16, 2010
8:12 PM
I agree with Paul. Also you guys are right about the corn, especially cracked corn. Many years ago I stopped using corn period and I have never had a case of canker sense and the overall health of my birds improved.
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Think Outside The Box
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Nick Siders
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4168 posts
Aug 16, 2010
9:16 PM
Paul and Nick, I have been using scratch grains off and on for years and never had any problems. However, I do know my kit birds do best on a 50/50 wheat and milo mix with a hint of pellets. I just don't think scratch grains are as bad for pigeons as is so often assumed. Pigeons have different nutritional needs than chickens and are much smaller, so the nutrition in scratch grains I have used is greater in pigeons than it is for chickens. JMO
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria


The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
RodSD
422 posts
Aug 16, 2010
10:47 PM
Tony,

I had the same experience as yours! And I used the same ratio! I can't get my birds flying with 50/50 pellet and scratch grain. It seems that birds feel hungry so they won't fly. So I ended up using more grains and less pellets and they started flying. I now have a second thought on feeding pellets. It seems to be good with breeders, but not for flyers. Now I use pellets as a supplement with grains covering the most. I must admit that I also add peas on their grains 3 times a week.

From experience feeding them full scratch will make them skinny and wont fly as well. Feeding full pellets will also show the same. Playing with the ratio seems to be the key.

I even experimented with feeding wild bird seeds. They seem to do better with that than with scratch grains. In my crazy experiments I have been mixing wild bird seeds, chicken scratch, chicken pellets and peas. My birds do well on 12% protein and not do well on 16% protein. Basically I want my birds to able to fly 30-60 minutes and have enough energy to out fly a hawk because on average I get attack once a week here the whole year. Winter is even worse. I release my birds 3 times during those times and I get attack 2 out of 3 releases so I ends up with lock down for a week.

I am getting tired doing feed experiments so that my birds will fly consistently.
Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2492 posts
Aug 17, 2010
7:07 AM
I have used chicken scratch in my mix with pellets, sunflower, safflower and peas in a standard mix for many years with no problems whatsoever. But I don't feed it straight. I just like the added corn and the vitamin A that it contains.
Cliff
steve49
560 posts
Aug 17, 2010
8:12 AM
Tony, our feed prices on Liny are triple of yours. Pigeon pellets are Better than layer pellets. Also, young birds don't always fly consistent times, so the feed may not be playing as big a role as you would think.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4170 posts
Aug 17, 2010
8:18 AM
Hey Steve, yeah, I know what you mean, young birds can be inconsistent in some ways. Just today, the temps are about 10 degrees lower than yesterday, actually feels cool this morning, the birds still flew and hour and a half but did not get as high as they have been flying over the last several days. It could just be the much cooler morning air is not creating the "lift" that warmer air can.

For now I will keep them on the scratch and bit of pellets until I have to buy more feed for my inventory. What major ingredient differences have you noticed between pigeon and chicken layer pellets?
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria


The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4171 posts
Aug 17, 2010
8:20 AM
Just want to thank everyone for the fair comments on this topic. I was thinking someone was going to rip me a new one (Paul).
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria


The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
polarbear
140 posts
Aug 17, 2010
6:31 PM
When changing feed say a mix to wheat or wheat and milo, how many days does it take to notice a difference it has on the kit birds?
I have heard it alot that it takes several days before you know or see the effects when changing feed. Also how big of a difference do you see and how long before they get use to the new feed before they revert back to the same problems?

One last thing, when speaking about wheat is it hard red wheat which is smaller and drier looking or the white feed wheat that is bigger comapred to the hard red wheat that everyone seems to be using?
nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4412 posts
Aug 17, 2010
7:36 PM
All of these differing opinions and everyone of them is right.
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Think Outside The Box
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Nick Siders
Mark
63 posts
Aug 17, 2010
11:01 PM
Tony, I agree with alot of what you are saying. I think more of it has to do with what family a person is flying. The family I have will fly for what seems a real long time on just a few grains. If I fed them what some people here do they would stay up for hours. I have used scratch for years. The thing about canker is a hard one for me to believe. I think that if a bird has canker it doesn't matter what you feed them, the canker will show itself. The cracked corn scratching their throat is just another way of someone putting down ones feeding habits, or putting down the flyer.

I use it to bring the birds down when they get a little strong. If I really want to put the screws to them I'll add some barley. A person has to be careful because some of the more active birds will rail out quicker than the stiffer ones.

Mark

P.S. it's a great feed to train young birds. A team will act as one better when training them on scratch (traping, responding to the can, and not hanging outside while others are inside the loft). But always keep in mind they need more protein as young birds than scratch has, hence the pellets. Some days I'll hold them in and give them all the pellets they want. Once they start picking them up and throwing them about, I'll pull the tray. Do this early in the a.m. and fly them the next day. They won't be stuff from the day before because the pellets would already be out of their system.
fhtfire
2634 posts
Aug 17, 2010
11:14 PM
Chicken Scratch is not even recommended for young chickens only adults...there is a reason for that...crap feed...young birds need rich feed....dont worry about how young birds fly...keep the fed rich until they come into the roll...I guess to each his own..but chicken scratch is the bottom of the barrel as far as feeds go...and that is literally ...bottom of the silo...LOL...

Why feed crap feed when there are better feeds that do the same thing...

Mark.....Cracked corn will assist in the flare up of canker when bacteria is in the cracked corn. It has nothing to do with putting down a feed schedule or a flier. //


Anyway..everyone is free to feed what they want...I am going to try cat food tomorrow...LOL...

rock and ROLL

Paul

Last Edited by on Aug 17, 2010 11:24 PM
fhtfire
2635 posts
Aug 17, 2010
11:33 PM
Polarbear,

It takes longer then a couple days to get the full effect of a feed or should I say have the body react to the feed. Shocking a bird so to speak with a quick change in feed is basically just a trick on the old body....it wont last....but when changing to a totally different mix or feed type..it can take up to 10 days to see how a bird reacts to the feed or how the feed reacts to the birds muscles.

There is a difference from the shock factor the body not being used to it....then continuous feeding and getting the full reaction. That is why fliers will usually start a bird on straight wheat for 10-14 days before a fly...or straight XYZ feed...about the end of the 10-14 days the bird should be reacting to the full effects of being on straight wheat...then a flier will change to a real rich feed two days before a fly and that is a short term shock to the system...the body gets a quick hit of protein becuase the muscles are starving for it....the muscles dont actually get a full affect from it...but mentally and physically it tricks or shocks the bird. That is short term.

Human athletes do it all the time...carb depleting and then carb loading...you deplete for about a week and then load a couple days befere an event....the body reacts big time with energy and the muscles get real juiced..but it is short term and is a trick on the old body.

The risk of a bird getting sick is the main thing about scratch..its made for chickens because chickens are very HARDY and are scavengers....they will pick and eat feces from other animals if they get the chance...filthy animals...pigeons are a little more sensitive....and the fact that we are raising performance birds that need the good stuff...scratch is for barn pigeons.

rock and ROLL

Paul
Mark
64 posts
Aug 17, 2010
11:47 PM
I guess you didn't read my post very clearly. I was talking about MY family, not yours or Bob's or Tom's, but mine. Two of the grains that make up scratch are the same ones that I have seen in your previous posts. I know that when you made reference to these grains, you were talking about older birds. You and I both know that there are different grades of wheat, but milo is milo. There is not a real big difference from popcorn and dent corn. That is the reason I use pellets. As you surly know it is to make sure they get the protein level for their young growing bodies.

The training thing is so f ing important to me. It is one thing when a cull shows itself latter in life, but when a young bird is culled when it's true worth is unknown is so much more important to me. Why are most yb's culled out of a team? IMHO it's because the fancier didn't have true control over the birds and he gave up on it too early because he had others in the team that were not giving him any trouble.

Read the post again and you will see how important the pellets are.
gotspin7
2693 posts
Aug 18, 2010
4:33 AM
As a kid I would feed my birds scratch feed and as a kid I remember running my hands threw the real deal (pigeon mix) lol.. and saying that I would give my stock this when I could afford it. Why would anyone want to feed chicken scratch to their stock being able to provide a better feed, I thought the rumors are that scratch is what they sweep in when all the good feed is picked up? I have invested to much time and money in my little tumbler family that I would not risk feeding such a poor feed. Sorry I was long winded..lol... Here you go, I agree with Paul Fullerton.....
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Sal Ortiz
"There are some fanciers that can talk and write about rollers and they sound very impressive, but they can't even fly a kite." (George Mason)
fhtfire
2637 posts
Aug 18, 2010
8:21 AM
Mark,

I read you post loud and clear. I am not talking about protein content of grains. I am talking about QUALITY of grains. Scratch may have the same grains but it is not the same quality.

Milo is NOT milo.....Here is the grading for milo QUALITY.....the stuff you get in Winners Cup etc is the N0.1....2 and Three could be your standard bags of milo...I usually get number 2. I want high quality feed with little dust and low moisture and mold content.

You guys can keep feeding your high mold content...maybe uncleaned....hot milo...meaning....moisture is to hot..and making heat inside the seed....and risk your birds getting sick or the birds get hurt with something you cant see...like stuff in the inside going wrong...because there bodies have to work harder or they get some sort of chronic virus from molds.

Corn is also graded...and popcorn is not in the same class as flat corn or cracked corn or dented corn. Popcorn is considered the corn of corns..the premium that is why it is in high quality pigeon mixes...low quality crap pigeon has flat corn...Corn really is a crap grain too..that is why it is CHEAP!!!

Milo-maize.

No. 1 Milo-Maize - Shall be mixed milo-maize of choice quality, sound, dry, and well cleaned.

No. 2 Milo-Maize - Shall be mixed milo-maize, sound, dry, and clean.

No. 3 Milo-Maize - Shall be mixed milo-maize, not dry, clean, or sound enough for No. 2.

No. 4 Milo-Maize - Shall include all mixed milo-maize that is badly damaged, damp, musty or very dirty.(SCRATCH)

Milo-maize that is wet or in heating condition shall not be graded. (SCRATCH OR DISGUARDED)


I dont get it....if you were a coach would you feed your athletes Mcdondalds ever now and then...NOPE ...when my son was wrestling..NO FAST FOOD AT ALL>>>only good food to fuel the fire....same with the birds...scratch is McDonalds....Good high QUALITY feeds are for athletes.....our birds are athletes...feed you barn pigeons scratch. I bet high quality Racer guys never feed there homers scratch....

Scratch is a tool to tweak..but not a tool worth the risk...all you are doing is spinning the revolver and hoping the bullet is not in the gun when you pull the trigger....it only takes one bad grain to mess you up.


All grain is graded that is commercial...feeds for animals and human consumption....

In grains you get what you pay for.....that simple....why do you think it is 6 bucks a bag...the tags dont usually list the contents why...ITS NOT GRADED>....

ALl you grains are graded for Moisture, clean, mold, rot, bugs, size, color, texture... and the list goes on...they are broken down based on quality and priced accordingly...its also the risk factor of particular animals and what they can handle...chickens can handle lower quality feeds...cows can too...pigs can to a point....horses....high quality.....dairy goats..high quality....farm goats...low quality....


So I am not talking about Protein etc..and even Proteins are not created equal....

ROck and ROLL

Paul
fhtfire
2638 posts
Aug 18, 2010
8:26 AM
Mark,

Culling a young bird is not losing control of your team....sorry...but a bone head bird is a bone head bird and you CANT control it. If a bird will not kit and continues to not kit....it is a cull...You give it time and if it does not starighten up...you cull it...plain and simple....has nothing to do with losing control....I will put it to you this way.....why would I want to keep a bird around that is acting up when 20 before it did not act out....get my point....Feed should never be the issue in young birds because they should get nothing but mix....they are growing still....why would anyone care about performance out of young birds or tweaking them...wait till there older...

Do I care if a T-ball team of 8 year olds are picking flowers...not paying attention....etc etc..nope..young...will I care if my 13-18 year olds are picking daisies yep..they better staighten up..they are old enough...now the adults in baseball...mistakes are unacceptable.....you feed, and play the best and coach the best period.....

rock and ROLL

Paul
fhtfire
2639 posts
Aug 18, 2010
8:31 AM
AN the last thing...the thread is nothing more then people defending themselves in the use of low quality feed. There is no benefit...RISK VS GAIN>..that is the key...you can get the same results with high quality feed...I know because I get them...Ruby blood is in the veins of my birds too and I am getting damn good performance...enough to win....LOL....and I am not using scratch....

This is about someone heard that someone used it back in the day with good results...or it has good results now....or I heard someone won a major fly on cracked corn....was it the cracked corn or a lucky day....the fact is you can get the SAME results with high quality grains with low RISK....

My old line...."Never let the FACTS get in the way of a good story". Again..I am not saying scratch will make your birds not perform or perform..that is not the issue..the issue is RISK VS GAIN...is it worth the risk to use low quality feed for XYZ grain...what is the risk of using high quality grain to get the SAME xyz results.....


Somtimes I am convinced that the old timers say one thing and do another just to keep the young guys chasing tails so they can keep collecting trophies....because there are ALOT of wives tales in the hobby and hear say that just is not true.

rock and ROLL

Paul
Scott
3124 posts
Aug 18, 2010
8:57 AM
Running scratch for long just makes them fly a click too fast .. sure you might get a bump at first due to the carbs but it will be short lived .

Personaly I see no reason to feed it .. although I doubt that it would hurt the birds unless it got moldy.
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Scott Campbell

" God Bless "
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4181 posts
Aug 18, 2010
9:48 AM
Paul, thanks for all the input on this topic. I know you and your brother have really gone through the nutritional ramifications and with your previous experience in athletics and showing animals; you have abundant knowledge to share and its appreciated!

However, I think what we have is people including myself who have actually used scratch grains and find them to be adequate for the intended task. If someone uses such a product and does not experience the problems indicated, what are they to make of that? So often, our experience dictates behavior.

When birds fall out of the sky from scratch use, I think minds will be changed. In the meantime, I would say I have never had a problem with scratch grain in about 18 years of raising pigeons. I don't dispute that grains are graded by quality etc, which is not even the point really; to me it is this, the bottom line, is it working for me?

In considering your point, If I were to stop using scratch grains, can you tell me how much better my kit birds would perform? Will they roll deeper? Tighter? Better quality? Would we be able to quantify the actual improvement? Probably not.

As for quality of grains, seems to me the issue comes down to the comfort level of the fancier who uses them. Until someone can show empirical evidence that rollers will perform better without ever having been fed scratch grain, then each persons personal experience and priorities will be the deciding factor as to what they do with it.

Saying that, I will repeat what I have said before, my mature teams perform best on a mix of wheat, milo and pellet mix. But I have no problem giving my young birds scratch (heavy carbohydrates) to lose some baby fat, give them a boost of energy to get off the kit box and start the training. My scratch grain fed team has currently been flying about 1.5 hours every day for two weeks now. I include about 4 ounces of 16% pellets to 24 ounces of scratch for a total feed ration of 28ounces for 21 birds.
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria


The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4182 posts
Aug 18, 2010
9:57 AM
Scott, good point on the flying fast. A mature team would fly right through the breaks. That's why I like a wheat/milo mix. Slows them down and I get more of the butterfly effect which means bigger and more breaks.
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria


The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
fhtfire
2640 posts
Aug 18, 2010
12:32 PM
Tony,


Its not that it is not up to the task. That is not what I am saying. Of course it could be up to the task. Its about QUALITY and the risk. You are like me and use percentages and statistics and odds. I am saying the odds of getting something that could wack all your birds is 10fold. The odds of getting something with the graded higher quality food are MINIMAL. I am not saying that it works or does not work....it most likely does.

What I am saying is it worth the risk....most scratch is ungraded or did not pass the grade....

Could I get a bad bag of quality grain..yes...but what are the odds...ALOT smaller.....what are the odds of getting a bag of scratch...alot higher...no quality control...my whole point is that good milo and wheat can do the EXACT SAME THING..with little or no risk.

Tripping over dollars to pick up pennies is another faovrite of mine...to save 2 dollars a bag....one is willing to risk the value of your birds if something does go wrong.....to me its not worth the risk. You know what Tony...I will send you 4 extra dollars a month to throw the scratch to your chickens where it belongs....because I would not be able to stand it if something were to happen to your birds...plus I will then sell my Rubys back to you for 80 a bird...LOL...

Now you HAVE to be careful because KARMA works and you have said not problems so far...birds falling out of the air...now its going to happen...firefighters are Karma machines...we believe..Karma keeps us in business....

rock and ROLL

Paul
fhtfire
2641 posts
Aug 18, 2010
12:39 PM
Tony

You wrote-


In considering your point, If I were to stop using scratch grains, can you tell me how much better my kit birds would perform? Will they roll deeper? Tighter? Better quality? Would we be able to quantify the actual improvement? Probably not


Ok...I will answer this one...THE SAME...its not about he performance its about the quality. All you did is what we all do...you made a change and tweaked them....you could have did the same with straight milo. As a matter of fact I would bet my left nut they would have done the same....

Second....scratch is not recommended for young chickens why would we feed to young birds...no need..we are not trying to squeeze performance from young birds....we put the squeeze on old birds....or birds way into the roll.

I dont care how my young birds fly when they are young...when they hit the A team or B team...then I care...then they get wheat milo, tweaked...up to that point..if they are still flying in a young bird team...they get the best feed....no wheat...no milo...by itself...every....birds are growing still...

I know you know all this..that is why I am confused on why some would feed young birds wheat or milo anyway....

Again...not about the performance...performance for young birds is day to day until they promote to a true team if high quality pigeons.....like and A or B team....young bird teams are so inconsistent that if they have a good day I never think I am on to something..and if they have a bad day I dont think I am on to something....

rock and ROLL

Paul
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4184 posts
Aug 18, 2010
12:46 PM
Paul, thanks for the $4 offer but it all will work out. ;-)

As for odds, I have lost more birds through breeding culls, should I stop breeding? So often, humans place more weight to things they hear about than to what actually is. For example, I am afraid of flying, why? Mostly due to the publicity surrounding the rare airline crash. The fact of the matter is it is more dangerous to drive a car but I have no problem getting behind a wheel and driving a car at 60mph toward oncoming traffic approaching at a combined speed of perhaps 120mph separated by only about 12 inches of yellow double-lined paint!

I am not worried about milo that comes in scratch grain. ;-)
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria


The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
Scott
3126 posts
Aug 21, 2010
6:43 AM
Pigeons will eat all kinds of crap in the wild.. including their own ... they also drink out of sewer ponds .. and you guys are worried about chicken scratch ?
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Scott Campbell

" God Bless "
wannaroll
225 posts
Aug 21, 2010
8:08 AM
I'm kinda shocked at how much some of you guys have to pay for feed. For Royal 14% I just paid $16. Wheat is $14, Milo is $13 and I pay $15 for 22% pigeon pellets. I would have thought feed would be cheaper everywhere except Calif.

The way I look at it is chicken food is for chickens and pigeon food is for pigeons. Even lay pellets have way too much calcium for pigeons. Pigeon pellets don't have enough calcium for chickens. I think there is a reason that scientist come up with the feed formulations they do for all live stock.
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Dave - Hesperia, CA.

(San Bernardino Mountain Spinners)

Last Edited by on Aug 21, 2010 8:09 AM
fhtfire
2643 posts
Aug 21, 2010
3:33 PM
Scott,

Wild pigeons are no the same as our birds. Not performance in the wild. They are not "confined" so to speak..that puts stress on any animal. Wild pigeons can fly and are free to go anywhere they want. They are also immune to many things from exposure....I bet wild pigeons could eat all the moldy grain at grain yards...again..exposure. Then there is the fact that we dont see all the birds that croak from drikning from sewer ponds.

Again..Risk...No risk or hard work to a commie..LOL...anyway...I knew it was a matter of time until this was compared to a commie eating pizza scraps and hot dogs....but they look so healthy...LOL

rock and ROLL

Paul

Last Edited by on Aug 21, 2010 3:33 PM


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