Anonymous
Guest
Aug 28, 2004
7:27 PM
|
Have any body worked toward crossing rollers with homers to get homing ability back which rollers has last when this breed initially created (crossing with other breed)? Why just people cross rollers for COLORS only
Is rolling in rollers fault?
|
Anonymous
Guest
Aug 30, 2004
1:23 PM
|
If you're posing a serious question regarding a "homing ability" in your rollers, and you're having problems with your rollers coming back to the loft after flying in say a 5 block radius, then I'd recommend that you look for some different birds.
Rollers aren't meant to come back after being released 100 miles away. So I'm not really sure what you're asking here. Unless you're trying to touch on a point that we've all moved past.
|
rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
155 posts
Aug 30, 2004
9:17 PM
|
Okay, I'll go along...If a performance breeder is breeding FOR the roll, then it is not a fault. In fact, it is a success!
I have had rollers find their way back to the loft due to overflys after being gone for 4 days! Hungry and dirty I am sure they were several miles from home and yet still found their way back. FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
Phantom1
18 posts
Aug 31, 2004
8:31 AM
|
Tony,
Would you call them Romers or Holers? LOL!
Eric
|
Anonymous
Guest
Aug 31, 2004
10:52 AM
|
I think it is a fault because there are more crashes
|
Anonymous
Guest
Aug 31, 2004
1:16 PM
|
If people are working to add colors in rollers breed so why not work towards homing and fix some other crazzzzy thing in rollers?
|
Anonymous
Guest
Aug 31, 2004
1:40 PM
|
My rollers ain't broke. They know where home is. I don't think crossing a breed for the purpose of transferring an ability is the same, nor as successful, as working with color. At least with color you have something tangible to work with. Even if it is just a half breed, you know what you're working with. The homing ability in Racing Homers is something unique to that breed. If I ever started entering races with my rollers, then I might consider it. But today, it doesn't apply to me.
|
K.Naylor
6 posts
Aug 31, 2004
2:01 PM
|
I think it is a joke and a disgrace to the breed to cross anything with them and still call them Rollers!! Kevin
|
highrollers
11 posts
Aug 31, 2004
8:20 PM
|
I had a roller that would stay away for a few days at a time than show up. Almost like a tom cat in heat. I guest his nine lives ran out one day when a Falcon caught up with hime.
|
Bill
Guest
Aug 31, 2004
9:47 PM
|
You would ruin both breeds by crossing homers with rollers. Homers will raom the country side and you wouldn't see your birds much and by the time you tried to breed the roll back into them you would have lost all the homers instincts. We all lose a few birds and you want to try and reduce your losses by wathcing weather, High pressure, wind and fly a few older birds or older hens with your younger birds to help keep them above your loft as the younger birds will drift more. The older birds will help them make it back home. Also When you lose a few birds that just can't find home and you pick a good bird out of the few that strayed and made it home you are now developing a better homing instinct in your rollers. The guys before us who have bred these wonderful birds were very didicated and we would be trashing the breed to mix anything in them, even a certain color is trashing the true birmingham roller breed. Raise 100 young birds in time and you can deal with a few stays better!!!! Bill
|
Anonymous
Guest
Sep 01, 2004
8:29 AM
|
Bill, in other words you are saying by crossing homers with rollers will ruin both of them...so crossing in not good either for colors or for any thing else?
I disagreed, as many fancier added colors in rollers breed from other breeds without losing rollers ability to roll.
and after doing so birds may roll but do not want to fly but that is different story
|
K.Naylor
8 posts
Sep 01, 2004
9:18 AM
|
I agree with Bill. Once you cross them they are no longer a roller in my book. If you breed a poodle with a lab and it comes out looking like a poodle is it a poodle or a cross?? These guys that cross and seel them as pure are ruing the hobby and the breed.
|
AD3
21 posts
Sep 01, 2004
11:41 AM
|
Are these folks really serious about all these crosses? It is common sense that if one crosses one breed to the other, their offspring are physically (and mentally) not completely one or the other (breed). Thus, categorizing them as one or the other (breed) evidently becomes erroneous.
When one is fortunate enough to have good stock and great kit birds to stock, one might even use "homing" ability as a means to choose stock/breeders. Maybe you noticed that this rollers has always came back the same day after a preditor attack or something.
Then again, if the pigeon has developed while flown in your loft I must assume it has stayed, been homed, thus has good homing abilities.
----------
AD3 Online Loft @ http://ad3rollers.no-ip.com
Last Edited by AD3 on Sep 01, 2004 12:09 PM
|
Anonymous
Guest
Sep 01, 2004
12:35 PM
|
Rollers breed were initially created by crossing. The key is inbreeding. You can have you project started with inbreed and you will get nice sound rollers birds which will roll and have homing ability as well
I know many old timers used even street pigeons and crossed in rollers using inbreeding. All fast on wings hard color birds and non-kitter goes back to those strains
|
Mother lode lofts
156 posts
Sep 01, 2004
12:43 PM
|
LOL LOL LOL LOL , man now I've heard it all.
|
AD3
22 posts
Sep 01, 2004
1:32 PM
|
Ditto Scott. LOL
----------
AD3 Online Loft @ http://ad3rollers.no-ip.com
|
fhtfire
45 posts
Sep 01, 2004
1:33 PM
|
You have got to be kidding me LMAO! LOL LOL LOL LOL. Not wonder you kept the name ANON.
|
K.Naylor
10 posts
Sep 01, 2004
1:37 PM
|
Anon, you have to be kidding. That should be posted in the NBRC bulletin as the most dumb ass remark ever!!LOL
Last Edited by K.Naylor on Sep 01, 2004 1:43 PM
|
Thor
14 posts
Sep 01, 2004
1:50 PM
|
So you are saying my family are as good as commies than? (grin) Funny thing is that commies have outstanding homing abilities and kits in mod flocks to protect themselves from natural sky predators. Any bird that doesn't kit fall easy prey to sky sharks (falcons/hawks)
My birds can't find there way back from a block or two away if released but boy do they pack velocity. I would rather have a kit full of high velocity performers then a kit full of homing pigeons. I think most families will lose the homing ability when breeding your focus on performance, which is why we keep these guys in the first place.
Come on, anyone cross breeding for homing ability in this breed is in the wrong breed. If you want your birds to have outstanding homing ability, start breeding RACING Homers and it will do us more all good.
Find a family that most suits your need. I know I lose alot of birds to overflys but this is due more to mismanagement/poor judgement then the bird.
REMEMBER, our birds should circle in and around the same block when flying even when up at undesirable hieghts. Who would want to have a kit of rollers who flys miles and miles away and only returning when hungry. Come on, what are we breeding here... homers or rollers.
Just my thoughts,
Thor
|
Phantom1
19 posts
Sep 01, 2004
2:48 PM
|
Hammer down Thor! I'd encourage you to go breed Racing Homers if that is where your interest lies. There's a huge difference in cross breeding for a color or cross breeding for an ability. You're going to lose ability 9 times out of 10, because the fancier doesn't see the project through, and you're only hurting each breed. Color is easier, but again, the fancier has to see it through. We've already hammered that subject into the ground in other posts, so I'll do us all a favor and just quit there.
|
K.Naylor
13 posts
Sep 01, 2004
2:57 PM
|
So what you are saying Phantom is that it is wrong to cross for ability but it is ok to cross for color??
|
Phantom1
20 posts
Sep 01, 2004
3:03 PM
|
Kevin,
I'm saying that they are two unrelated projects, and that those that undertake it need to finish what they start. I'm not a proponant to either, as I don't cross breed my birds.
Eric
|
Steve Sissel
Guest
Sep 01, 2004
3:08 PM
|
Heheheheheh
Homing abilites from street pigeons!!
Scott,
Where do these guys get this stuff? LOL
I thinks they either have great imaginations,Nitemares or they have been watching to many Elvi's CD's
LOL
Later Steve
|
Mother lode lofts
158 posts
Sep 01, 2004
3:16 PM
|
This is actually real simple. Just breed out of old birds that are proven. If they are still in the kit as oldbirds then they have the ability to find home. But you still must becareful. Once a kit of birds are hard in the roll it both wears them down and gets them a little mental scrambled. take a stiff kit and it's near impossible to fly them off.
Scott
|
K.Naylor
14 posts
Sep 01, 2004
3:22 PM
|
Scott, how can they brred from a pigeon that doesn't have homing ability and has flown off?
|
Mother lode lofts
160 posts
Sep 01, 2004
3:32 PM
|
Don't complicate things Keven LOL
Scott
|
Anonymous
Guest
Sep 01, 2004
4:04 PM
|
Steve,
Great post!! LMAO!!! I hear that, after viewing Elvi's CD, your phone will ring and a voice will say "seven days"....
|
Joe
Guest
Sep 02, 2004
12:25 AM
|
I don't see any problem with the homing ability of rollers. I regularly give my cull birds to a friend of mine who lives around 25 miles away. He doesn't have the time to breed so he just flies what he gets off me. He keeps them locked down for a week and then releases them with his kit birds to fly. On several occasions I have had birds fly back to my place.
Even homer guys will tell you that they loose birds "off the loft" and due to "fly away" syndrome when most of their flock can go missing when just loft flying.
|
Siddiqir
97 posts
Sep 02, 2004
10:34 AM
|
My rollers have no problem returning back to home either after fly away for because of bad weather. I have birds returning back home after three days however this apply to only adult rollers. Youngster gets lost very easily. I have adult fly out of sight for 30 minutes or more really high and away from home (couple of miles) but they do get home without any problem
Another thing I noticed one or may be more birds take whole kit away but if they fly in kit then same bird or birds which took whole kit away will bring all back home too, which I consider that particle bird(s) have more homing ability then other. So I believe even in rollers there are birds which have more powerful homing ability then others...
I am not sure if rolling in roller is fault. I seen some smart birds which really manage to control there self while judging where they are when they get into roll and makes roll shorter and longer depend upon where they are…this action could be easily noticed when they are about to come to land as most of the rollers do get very short rolls to make landing easier and never seem them crashing…Other rollers(roll down) they do not care where they are and just roll same length however those do use breaks I seen deep get 40+ out of roll and get back in roll after few second pause and either hit the ground and roof top…even I seen birds fly and roll excellent for years and then start hitting…may be it is fault and function of some thing...feed ? How often they get fly? Or may just simply fault…
Last Edited by Siddiqir on Sep 02, 2004 10:51 AM
|
Thor
19 posts
Sep 04, 2004
10:57 PM
|
Hi Joe,
I too have found that it is near impossible to fly away 'Culls'. I have seen 'Culls' return home after being release a year later being a captive in another loft. I have seen many-many 'Culls' out fly a Cooper. 'Culls' can do everything but what they were bred for. (grin)
Altho if we are taking about the hardest working birds here... how many Champion given away return after escaping?
I think we all shape our birds into something we want.
'Culls' barely, but hard workers... easly.
Thor
|
Chris
Guest
Sep 05, 2004
1:22 PM
|
In South Africa, where I live we basicly have two flying pigeon breeds available, racers or rollers. We have none of the highflying breeds as in any other country. A couple of years ago I decided to breed my own highfliers by crossing rollers and racers. The offspring where good fliers, with good homing ability, but no rolling or tumbling ability. I feel you will damage your birds rolling caracter by crossing the two races.
Remember all pigeons have some sort of homing ability- rather use pure rollers from a wide genetic pool and select for homing ability when breeding. Maybe start your bird on short tosses (up to 10/20 miles first year) and only breed with bird left over at end of year, next year increase distance to 20/40 miles and only breed with birds left over, and continue each year. But in the end you must have a goal - Do you want to fly and admire rolling pigeons or race pigeons and admire their homing ability?
I rather envy you guys in America, for all practical reasons there is a race of pigeons available for each purpose a fancier may want to fly birds. Rather then change a race to suit your needs, change to a race that has already been bred to suit your needs(do not re-invent the wheel).
|
