Rick Mee
34 posts
Jul 03, 2010
6:15 PM
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How many of you feel that your kits would perform better if the WC finals were flown in the fall here in the US, versus the current timing we have?
I ask the above because out of curiosity I checked out what the temps were in the countries which are about to fly the WC finals, comparing them to the temps in the US. It was no surprise that the countries about to fly the finals are enjoying cool temps in comparison to the heat wave that we have. Anyone who has had rollers for more than a season knows that the birds roll at their utmost when it is cool, not when it is hot.
My suggestion is to simply flip flop the timing of the WC and the NCF here in the US, leave the WC as it is overseas. This means that the NCF would be flown in the spring, then the WC in the fall. The WC judge could judge the WC finalists overseas at the same time they are scheduled because it has been proven that this is their best time, then come back and judge the US finalists in the fall.
In doing the above it would enable us to fly the WC when it is cooler and give us a better opportunity at having our birds roll at their utmost. It would also break up the judge's assignment in to two equal segments versus having to do it all at once.
Some will disagree, stating that BOPs in the fall are the reason this could never happen. However, I guarantee that over 90% of the guys who fly the WC in the spring here in the US, also fly the NCF in the fall.
So what would you guys prefer, leave it as it is, or fly the WC in the fall? Please give your reasons.
PS: Hey Tony, I haven't been on here in a very long while. My wife is in Russia for the summer so I have time to play now. LOL
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winwardrollers
509 posts
Jul 03, 2010
7:37 PM
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I like it how it is now in the spring. The molt is a mess to fly with in the fall unless it is late fall. This year was just an off year with weather patterns and I don't know that it was all that hot for the finals. Last Year Rich Hayes still won and by a large margin and that has been the case for north america in years past as well.
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Jul 03, 2010 9:10 PM
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donnie james
1059 posts
Jul 03, 2010
8:42 PM
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hay rick,
i'm doing good and thanks for asking got ya !!!!!!!!!! well i like this time of year because i'll get ate up by the bop's it seem no one is thinking about the bop's in the fall if you guys change it to the fall and a few get hit by the bop's their going to HELL because you guys movied it to the fall so what can you do about ??????????????? only thing i can say let them rase HELL and b*tch about and keep where its at.......................
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Donny James
"Fly The Best And Cull The Rest"
"Saying One Thing;Doing Its Another"
"Keep Your Head Planted In The Sky And Wings Spanned Wide"
1996 Piedmont Roller Club Lifetime Achievement Recipient
Portsmouth Roller Club Participation Award System Recipient 1994 '96 '97 And 2000
2001 Limestone,Ohio Sportsman's Club Lifetime Member Recipient
2002Portsmouth Roller Club Certified Judge
2004Portsmouth Roller Club Lifetime Member Recipient
"Miss Portsmouth"NBRC/90/J311 Rusty Dun Check Self Hen First Bird To Get Certified In Portsmouth Roller Club History With A Score Of 53 Judge By Joe Roe The 1993 World Cup Winner And John Bender The 1994 World Cup Winner
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JMUrbon
1064 posts
Jul 03, 2010
8:43 PM
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I myself would much rather fly the WC later in the year even though the temps have never really been a factor for me. I fly in the afternoons anyway so my birds are usually prepared for the heat. I certainly dont like flying in temps in the 90's and 100's but the WC is gone usually by the time temps get there for me. Still the same I have seen my best teams in the fall rather than the spring. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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turkey buzzard
151 posts
Jul 04, 2010
7:15 AM
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Rick how hot can it be in October ive seen it still i the 100's opening day of deer season Nov. 1st 91 degrees I just dont see the benefit. I know Heine Biker stated one time at Alexs that with the weather varibles Texas Arizona new mexico will never win a WC.
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Rick Mee
37 posts
Jul 04, 2010
9:20 AM
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It definitely is tougher in the states you mention, however with the right weather system moving in all things are possible.
When Hannes was here last year my kit was crap the day of the finals, the next day we flew the same kit and they could have easily won the whole thing. Now if I were back in WA state where I had a great place to fly from 1996-1997, great weather, and only lost two birds in two years, well then those guys overseas would be bitching like I am now. LOL
I know that complaining about it is not going to make a bit of difference, guess I am just frustrated.....
Seems like the place to be in the US is MT, good weather, no BOPs, what else can a guy ask for? LOL
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
686 posts
Jul 05, 2010
9:13 AM
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Rick,
Nov to Feb no good here in Kansas unless you like flying in sub zero temps, and blizzards with a hungry BOP in every tree waiting for a free meal.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Rick Mee
38 posts
Jul 05, 2010
10:20 AM
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So what is the best month for you to fly Joe?
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4372 posts
Jul 05, 2010
11:08 AM
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One month earlier would work. The final should be flown in May as opposed to June. What a difference a month can make. OR! we swap the WC and NBRC events. Fly the final of the NBRC in May and the final of the WC in November.
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Think Outside The Box
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Nick Siders
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stiff
92 posts
Jul 05, 2010
3:57 PM
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----------Rick you should have moved to Hawaii?
Clayton
clayton leu learning the ways to fly rollers!
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
687 posts
Jul 05, 2010
4:39 PM
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Nick,
If the finals judge is going to spend 40 days in the US it will be hard to get it all in during the month of May. The later in May you go the higher the liklihood of hot weather. It was 95+ here on Memorial Day weekend. In order to start the finals in late April you have to fly the qualifiers in March, still in middle of major BOP migration. Personally, I would like to see the NCF in the Spring and screw the WC. It has gotten so big it is dying under its own weight. Just my opinion!!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
666 posts
Jul 05, 2010
7:16 PM
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No matter when the fly is, someone is goping to have a problem, heat, BOP, or something. If the majority of US fliers want to move it a week or two one direction or the other so be it. But lets not mess with one good fly to mess up the fly for someone else.
I think the best way to handle the thing is for the judge to be scheduled longer at each flier house. Every flier shold be able to fly in the morning. If they choose to fly later that would be thier choice. This also means that fliers need to do what needs to be done so that the judge can be at thier house at 6 am to put them up.
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RT Williams
Brink of Rolling Loft
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Rick Mee
39 posts
Jul 05, 2010
7:34 PM
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RT, that would be nice if every flier could fly early AM but that is asking a lot from the judge.
Sunflower, the WC is the big enchilada, do you want to win against merely your own countrymen, or against the whole world?
Personally, it would work better for myself and most of the fliers in the southern states if the WC were in the fall because of the heat. Some guys up north have also told me that they feel their birds would do better in the fall. Problem is, some guys have BOPs up the ying yang in the fall, for some it is peachy. Conversely, some have BOPs up the ying yang in the spring and loose many of their best birds in preparation for the WC regionals and also the finals. If the flies were flip flopped then it would not screw up either fly. Still competing at the same time of the year, just calling it a different name. Let the guys overseas fly their finals as they are this time of year, we fly ours in the fall when it cools off. This method would also break up the judge's assignment in to two near equal portions instead of trying to do it all at once.
Just an idea guys, just trying to find a way that we can fly our birds at the best time to show the rest of the world that we can put up good kits too.
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
667 posts
Jul 05, 2010
9:08 PM
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Rick
Like you said above : the WC is the big enchilada :
Since it is then the judge can spend an evening and a morning at each fliers place, or teh flier should be able to say I want to fly at "X" time and be able to fly then. It takes a lot to qualify, and to compete against the WORLD, let the flyier have the best oppurtunity he can have. It is not that much harder for the judge, and if it is, lets raise the amount of kits needed to have a qualifier to make up the difference.
Or have a fly off for the regions so only 2 kits get to compete, and therfore the judge is in each region for 36 to 48 hours giving teh fliers an oppurtunity to have thier best time of day to fly.
We can not doing anything about other factors, such as cloudy, sunny, rain, wind or BOP, but we can let the flier have a day to get the best out of his birds to work around these factors.
I agree that the WC has the biggest bragging right if won. It is the big enchilada, to say youhave the best in the World. But to say you have the best in the US is pretty awesome also.
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RT Williams
Brink of Rolling Loft
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winwardrollers
512 posts
Jul 05, 2010
10:52 PM
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Trampas
How is the news letter coming..let me know privately.. e-mail if you need help.
You stated ...""judge is in each region for 36 to 48 hours giving teh fliers an oppurtunity to have thier best time of day to fly".
You can not have a judge out for just under 6 months judging that is a long time, and who is going to delay or holdover there kit for that length of time in the first place.
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2010 10:53 PM
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
688 posts
Jul 06, 2010
5:47 AM
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Rick,
I believe the WC was the big enchilada but has become too large to survive without making some major adjustments. The finals takes 2 1/2 months to complete. Somehow we need to pare that 70 days down into 30 days. Maybe it is time to rethink the format and have the finals competition among the top 5 or 6 fliers on each continent.
I do agree that some have a definite advantage with respect to the weather given the current schedule. But no matter what you do someone will have that advantage. How do you get around it? I don't think splitting the fly,Spring and Fall, will be the answer. Time to rethink the format!!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
689 posts
Jul 06, 2010
7:46 AM
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Rick,
I also believe if we don't pare down the finals it will become increasingly difficult to find a judge.
Anyone who is so dedicated to the hobby that they are willing to spend 70+ days away from their family and job on a whirlwind trip around the world deserves all our admiration. Hell I've been on deployments that didn't last that long. Just another thought to consider!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Rick Mee
42 posts
Jul 06, 2010
2:22 PM
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I agree Joe and have suggested a 3 tier in the past. Most have the mentality that if it isn't broke then don't fix it, I just think that is irresponsible thinking.
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
508 posts
Jul 06, 2010
6:37 PM
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Change never hurts anyone.
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Tony.H...
"Color is not an option"
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
669 posts
Jul 06, 2010
7:28 PM
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Hey Rick and Company,
How about using the NCF as the US qualifier. Let the top 10 represent the US?
Just throwing this out there, not sure I like the idea, but will put it up for debate. You could also fly in Jan if you were the qualifier.
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RT Williams
Brink of Rolling Loft
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
690 posts
Jul 07, 2010
5:35 AM
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Trampas,
Not a bad idea and has been discussed before. Problem becomes one of money. If you don't get the entry fees from the qualification round, then you don't have the money to fund the finals travel. Like I said it has gotten too big to survive.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
670 posts
Jul 07, 2010
7:03 AM
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Good point about the money, it would have to cost a nice penny to fly around the world.
The other thing is that a lot of guys are locked down from Oct til March, Not really fair to eliminate that much compition.
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RT Williams
Brink of Rolling Loft
Last Edited by on Jul 07, 2010 7:04 AM
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Rick Mee
43 posts
Jul 07, 2010
12:46 PM
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Trampas, you are stealing my thoughts, I put the same thing on Earls List probably last year and a bunch grumbled about it. In 2008 there were 47 finalists in the NCF 20 bird, in 2009 46. If you take the top 10% and round up then 5 guys make it to the WC finals from the US. The Europeans who fly in the Anglo/African Cup could use their top 10% to identify their WC finalists, but what about the smaller countries out of the way which do not have a big national fly? If you allow them to still have a finalist and they did not have to go through a second tier then some will grumble, honestly I can see the unfairness if that did happen. I am sure there could be a way where the smaller countries could combine and have a fly off to narrow their finalists down like the larger continents would do.
My concern with the WC has never been that there are too many competitors, it has been that we will run out of guys wanting to judge the finals due to the time it takes to complete same.
Getting back on track: The reason some did not like my idea about using the NCF top finishers as a qualifier for the WC finals is that it would cut out the WC regional. Some guys only get to compete in the WC and NCF because they do not belong to a club, therefore they were against this idea. Some guys can only fly the WC because that is the only fly where there are no BOPs, the NCF is out of the question because of fall migration for some.
Now matter what decision is made in the future, some are not going to like it because of scheduling.
Now if we did use a 3 tier fly for the WC and held the WC at the same time of the year we currently hold it, having a second tier may push the finals further in to the summer which would exclude any chances the fliers have in the warmer climates. If the WC regional flies are earlier then we deal with spring migration.
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea I posted the other day on Earl's List. Fly the WC in the fall here in the US, judge our finalists in the fall, let the guys in the other countries fly their finals as they are doing now. This would allow the judge to break up his assignment in to two near equal portions. It is a lot easier being away from home for 30 some odd days at a time, versus 70 some odd days all at once. Personally, I have been asked to judge the WC a few different times and have declined because that is just way too long to be away from home. However, if the US finalists could be judged in the fall, Europe and surrounding countries in the spring, then I bet there would be a lot more guys not only from the US but also from other countries who would be willing to take the plunge, I would.
I know that flying in the fall here in the US does not work for everyone, flying in the spring to early summer does not for others either. Just presenting ideas fellas, just concerned about the future of the WC.
Some will say to just leave it alone, if not broke don't fix it! To them I say, that is a very irresponsible way of looking at it.
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2489 posts
Jul 13, 2010
6:48 PM
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RT
Your idea, to lessen the number of finals qualifiers, is a good one.
Many years ago the WC rules had no provisions on how the qualifiers were chosen. However, the revised WC rules mandate that a WC regional fly, flown by WC rules is required for any and all qualifiers.
Since the WC rules and the NBRC rules differ, we can not use the NCF as a way to find WC qualifiers.
Cliff
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