Sound Rollers
327 posts
May 04, 2010
1:27 PM
|
This morning I went into the loft and to my dismay I see a partially hatched egg outside the nest bowl sitting on the wire floor. I about crapped myself. I picked it up and the squab was very cold. I removed what was left of the shell and 10 minutes later that squab was loving life. It was nice, warm and cozy under mom. Just thought I'd share this.
P.S. I'll issue a SITREP in the days to come.
V/r
John
|
donnie james
1001 posts
May 04, 2010
2:57 PM
|
hay john,
i'm glad you saved that baby...............
----------
Donny James
"Fly The Best And Cull The Rest"
"Saying One Thing;Doing Its Another"
"Keep Your Head Planted In The Sky And Wings Spanned Wide"
1996 Piedmont Roller Club Lifetime Achievement Recipient
Portsmouth Roller Club Participation Award System Recipient 1994 '96 '97 And 2000
2001 Limestone,Ohio Sportsman's Club Lifetime Member Recipient
2002Portsmouth Roller Club Certified Judge
2004Portsmouth Roller Club Lifetime Member Recipient
"Miss Portsmouth"NBRC/90/J311 Rusty Dun Check Self Hen First Bird To Get Certified In Portsmouth Roller Club History With A Score Of 53 Judge By Joe Roe The 1993 World Cup Winner And John Bender The 1994 World Cup Winner
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1751 posts
May 04, 2010
3:48 PM
|
John, This is not going to be popular and you will not want to hear it. Nature has it's ways and saving a weak bird may not be the blessing it appears. The squab was most likely kicked out of the nest by the parents because it was past time for it to hatch. It is starting life behind it's nest mate and development might not be normal. I hope it was accidentally knocked from the nest but please consider the long range consequences of helping birds live that nature deems unworthy.
John, please don't take this as criticism but as a sharing of hard learned lessons.
Thom
|
Sound Rollers
328 posts
May 04, 2010
4:06 PM
|
Thom, that egg was laid on the 12th, yesterday was 21 days, the second egg should hatch tonight or tomorrow. I bet it got hung up in the feathers or feet when the parents changed shifts. I'll keep you posted.
V/r
John
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1752 posts
May 04, 2010
4:26 PM
|
John, I think you could be right. I will hope for the best outcome! :)
Take care my friend
Thom
|
Sound Rollers
330 posts
May 04, 2010
4:33 PM
|
Thanks Thom.
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
270 posts
May 04, 2010
7:38 PM
|
John was it the same pair that lost one from the first round ,do not worries young birds get better at parenting as they get older remember these breeders are not or just a year old now and like wine they get better as they age. hang in there buddy. Dennis
|
TheGame
734 posts
May 04, 2010
11:08 PM
|
Hey it's funny you mention about the baby getting hung up on the feathers or feet. I saw an egg today that was stuck to the feathers of my bird. I lost a few eggs in the past and im going to assume because of this.
I don't know why the birds like to crap in their bowls lol. This is what makes the eggs stick to their feathers.
|
Pogohawk
123 posts
May 05, 2010
7:23 AM
|
A few years back I found a partially hatched homer egg and proceeded to help the baby break out. The little thing had been trying to hatch for three days with no success. For the first four races of the season she flew to another fanciers loft over 80 miles away. I was ready to cull the dang bird but my mentor told me to hang on to her. The last 500 mile race of the season she took first place by over eight minutes. I do believe she was a rare exception to helping young out of the nest and them doing ok. From my experience most babies given help at birth tend to be weaker in the long run, but you never know.
|
Sound Rollers
332 posts
May 05, 2010
9:48 AM
|
John said "the second egg should hatch tonight or tomorrow"
I don't think its going to hatch, it doesn't look right.
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1753 posts
May 05, 2010
10:39 AM
|
John, I would suspect that your might have a mild case of Salmonella or Parathyroid in your loft. Eggs not hatching or squabs dying in the shell are symptoms. If this is the only time you have had any problem this breeding season then disregard everything I am about to say. :) You can treat your birds, even the breeders and young squabs with Amoxicillin during the breeding season. It will not kill the Salmonella/Parathyroid but will push it into remission for the duration of the breeding season. Later, after the breeding season you can treat them with Baytril which (supposedly)will kill the infection/virus.
I hope this is of help.
Thom
|
Pogohawk
124 posts
May 05, 2010
4:49 PM
|
I've been having a similar problem with my breeders this year as well. I've treated them for Cocci and a few other things but Amoxicillin is my next step. I haven't used it thus far for fear of ruining the youngsters. But I haven't been able to fix the problem so far.
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1755 posts
May 05, 2010
5:46 PM
|
Pogohawk, Amoxicillin can be given to the breeders and their young while on the nest. It will not hurt them. But give the full two week course and use dechlorinated water. Then follow up with Bio Pro.
Thom
Last Edited by on May 05, 2010 5:50 PM
|
Pogohawk
125 posts
May 05, 2010
6:23 PM
|
Sounds good, I'll let you know how it goes.
|
Sound Rollers
335 posts
May 06, 2010
9:57 AM
|
Well I waited a couple days after saving the squab. The second egg did not hatch, I dissected the egg and it looked full term. I have no idea. This is the pair that lost one of it's first clutch.
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1756 posts
May 06, 2010
10:40 AM
|
John, Salmonella/Paratyphoid will cause many black eggs, squabs almost hatching but not, weak squabs that may or may not live. It comes from mouse droppings and is not any indicator of how clean your loft is. A mouse can squeeze through tiny openings or any opening more then 1/2 of an inch. I would consider treating them with Amoxicillin. I wish you the best of luck.
Thom
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
274 posts
May 06, 2010
10:44 AM
|
Hay Thom he has a brand new clean loft, can the parent be carrying this. John how is the squab that you helped out of the egg doing, did it make it.Dennis
Last Edited by on May 06, 2010 10:51 AM
|
Sound Rollers
336 posts
May 06, 2010
11:00 AM
|
Hi Dennis / Thom
The squab is doing well so far. I think I will treat with amoxicillin. I have not seen any mouse droppings in the loft. The food is sealed. This is a little disappointing.
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1757 posts
May 06, 2010
1:10 PM
|
Dennis, I never doubted his loft was clean. It is not a matter of clean; it is mouse droppings if it’s Paratyphoid. If it’s Salmonella it could come from multiple sources. Yes the parents can be carriers and the ugly will only rear it’s head in times of stress. The birds will appear and act normal, they will look healthy but are not.
John, If this is your only pair of birds that have lost young in this fashion, or if you are not getting any black eggs, or other squabs fully developed but not hatching, or squabs dieing after hatching, then there may not be a problem. But in my mind it is simply better to be safe then sorry. The treatment will not hurt your birds, it’s cheap and will allow you to finish your breeding season. Later in the year you can treat the whole loft with Baytril, which will cure them. ( I’m depending on the information gleamed from others on this.)
I wish you only the best and I hope for a successful breeding season, for you but I’m off the soap box. I would however be glad to help with any questions. :)
Thom
Last Edited by on May 06, 2010 3:05 PM
|
Sound Rollers
337 posts
May 06, 2010
4:58 PM
|
Thom, if it is just this pair, what do you think? My other pair has eggs due to hatch any day now. Thier first clutch went off without any hitches.
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
275 posts
May 06, 2010
6:23 PM
|
John it can be that pair, I know you only have those 2 pairs and you have them in individual breeding pens 30"x30" or so ,it can be stress I have 8 breeder pens in my main loft and after the two eggs are laid the doors to the individuals are left open so the breeders can exercise and take there bath, they beef up there nest and act like pigeons .When the squabs are 2 weeks old the door gets closed again until next round are laid
then the process starts all over.I think that there exercise and bath is very important in healthy pigeons. Dennis
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1758 posts
May 06, 2010
6:26 PM
|
John, Just this one time and if the others have no problems then perhaps they are just young? You will know shortly but I would keep a close eye out for any of the symptoms I mentioned. IF you have any trouble with the next round, well we have been there..... :)
John, do you only have the two pair?
Thom
|
Windjammer Loft
1106 posts
May 09, 2010
9:06 AM
|
I have to agree with Thom 100% on this one. I got your back Thom. Iam a firm believer that only the "strong" servive in my loft.... I "don't try and play "Mother Nature"
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on May 09, 2010 9:14 AM
|
Sound Rollers
338 posts
May 09, 2010
9:42 AM
|
Paul, I didn't play "Mother Nature" I did what anyone would have done and put the squab back in the nest, which by the way is twice it's size now and doing fine.
|
TheGame
737 posts
May 09, 2010
11:20 AM
|
What difference would it make if it's parents raised the baby vs you?? None.
I dont see anything wrong with helping a bird out. If you still firmly believe in not playing Mother Nature and only the strongest survive then dont medicate your pigeons when they are sick and let them try and cure themselves. Gurantee most of them will die without your help.
Last Edited by on May 09, 2010 3:39 PM
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
277 posts
May 09, 2010
12:35 PM
|
Good post Game
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1760 posts
May 09, 2010
1:27 PM
|
I have limited space in my loft. A sick or weak pigeon takes up the same space and costs as much as a healthy bird to feed and medicate. Of course, I medicate my birds. I worm them and I give them the very best care “I” know how but when the parents or “Mother Nature” decides something is wrong and that this particular bird should not survive then, I trust in their decision over my desires to save them all. I can interfere and change the outcome. If I truly believed the egg was bumped from the nest then I would replace it. I do not believe that was the case in this incident. By simply trying to save the weak bird and ignoring the underlying health problem, I would weaken my entire loft and lose more in the long term then just this one bird. By “only the strong survive” I mean, birds that are fit with a natural resistance to disease built within my loft from allowing only the strong to populate and become my breeding stock. Treat the otherwise strong but sick bird, of course. Save a bird to weak to hatch, been there, done that, learned my lessen.
Thom
|
TheGame
740 posts
May 09, 2010
3:43 PM
|
Well if it was really meant to die then it wouldnt be alive and double the size like Sound Rollers claims.
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1762 posts
May 09, 2010
3:47 PM
|
Game, the difference lies in what you expect and want from your birds. I will accept nothing less then the best from my birds and me. If they are inherently weak then there is no possible way they can meet or live up to my expectations. I am not hard hearted, to the contrary, I am toooo soft most of the time but I owe them my protection in every facet possible. Only retaining the healthiest birds is my duty to the loft. Without intervention this bird would not have hatched. If the egg was simply placed back in the nest, I still do not think it would have hatched. Is it a carrier of Paratyphoid? I don't know but if so and it remains untreated, what is the potential harm then?
Gentlemen, this is going past where it should. So. with RESPECT, I am finished.
Thom
Last Edited by on May 09, 2010 3:55 PM
|
Sound Rollers
339 posts
May 09, 2010
4:28 PM
|
With all honestly, their may be a problem in my loft, as the rounds go by I will figure it out. But the squab in question, I believe was draged out of the nest because awful long toe nails on the hen.
Here is the squab.
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1763 posts
May 09, 2010
4:40 PM
|
John, He is a cute little bugger! :) I hope he turns out to be a champion. Everything I said was meant as advice, unsolicited, but advice, NOT criticism! If you have any problems, Dennis will help, that is just who he is. :) I wish only the best for you and your birds.
Take care my friend
Thom
|
Sound Rollers
340 posts
May 09, 2010
5:11 PM
|
Thom, I still plan on administering "Amoxicillin" to the loft as you advised, just to play it safe. I think that's a great idea. The second pair is on eggs and they should hatch any day now. Their was no problems with their first round, will see what happens.
|
TheGame
743 posts
May 09, 2010
6:22 PM
|
Hey Thom I understand what you are saying, it just comes down to everyone having their own opinions and views. You have been in this game longer than I have so whatever you are doing must be working for you. Good luck with your flys and no hard feelings buddy.
Last Edited by on May 09, 2010 6:26 PM
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1765 posts
May 09, 2010
6:42 PM
|
Game, Never hard feelings! I'm rooting for you, we are all in this together! :)
Thom
|