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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Strong Kit
Strong Kit
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Sourland
Guest
Jul 05, 2004
9:23 AM
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I think I have a kit that needs to be slowed down. It's my second year with rollers. My original stock came from a NBRC member who practically gave them to me. He told me that they were not comp birds--instead they were birds that he kept for personal enjoyment. They are acombination of Frank Lavin birds and his own family. I feed qa mix of 30% red milo, 30% hard wheat, and 40% commercial mix with 16% protein. Flying time is finally under control. It'sdown to 30 or 40 minutes. Was 2+ hours. All my roll is from the back of the kit followed by frantic rushing to get back to the kit. I have noticed that when the birds come into the wind and turn they hover, the kit loosens up and everybody rolls. I'm thinking of putting them on straight milo and seeing what that accomplishes. My one concern is that in this kit of strong flyers I have a four month old bluebar cock that works his ass off. He started rolling from jumpstreet-fast and relatively frequent. He rolls deep, busts his to get back to the kit and rolls again. When they come in, he is wings down, panting and trembling with exhaustion. If I put the kit on straight milo, will I weaken him too much? Should I pull him from the kit and put him up while I tweak the others? Should I do any of this, or do you have any other suggestions? thanks, Geo.
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spintight
1 post
Jul 05, 2004
10:28 AM
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Well I notice that fast flying as a lot to do with the birds that are flying from the front of the kit, the lead birds, these birds can attribute to many problems with our kits.
Sounds like you already have a feeding about right on them but this is either a habit now that your kit has developed OR this is just what they do?
I would watch the lead birds, maybe 3-5 pigeons and try to ID them. Then pull them out and see how your kit does.
Also if your kit would slow down they might start to roll more? it might also be that some are them are getting A LOT more feed then others.
Yes I would feed your good spinner separately to prevent him from getting to weak and rolling down.
http://www.freewebs.com/spintight
Last Edited by spintight on Jul 05, 2004 10:28 AM
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Mother lode lofts
35 posts
Jul 05, 2004
10:47 AM
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Geo may want to ask him what the differance is between a comp bird and one just for your own enjoyment,does he just think that they are'nt good enough ? because there certainly are no bird or "birds"that are to good,there just is no such thing,now for your kit,you even asking this question tells me that you have an eye for detail and an want for understanding of the kit's mechanics (much like a competitor LOL)first off are the ages mixed ? ,first you have different types of birds your your team it sounds like,you have stiffs and you have birds with roll(sounds like my W/C team this year,your screwed,just kidding LOL)what you have to figure out is,are the one's leading the team actually stiffs and the one's rolling out the back just to frequent,or are they truelly stiffs and the ones rolling actually the good one's,if they are just stiffs you need to pull them as all they are doing is leading the good ones around with the rollers constantly trying to catch up,you'll rarelly see the potential of the good one's this way as they'll hold back due to just trying to keep up,you'll see a lot of short rolling and some will quit all together others just give up,if they are working hard to keep up and doing it it's a good sighn that they have a lot of heart and thats a good thing,in other words Geo you can take a couple of good working birds and throw them in with stiffs and after a bit they learn to resist and stiffen up,or quit even trying to kit or at the very least shorten way up,as for that cock,NO don't put him on Milo,milo is good for one thing and that breaking down and pulling wt off fast ,or for a boost of carbs,I would do the opposite and give him the 16 0/0 this slows down the roll a bit as it with build up his mental and physicle strength,you may try the team on periods of wheat,also cut the stiffs back with wheat and limit thier intake as they may be just hogging the grub from the others,make sure that everybody is getting thier fair share,no more and no less, hope this helps
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Sourland
Guest
Jul 05, 2004
11:35 AM
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Scott asked that question and impression that I got was that these birds,although very deep and fast, were not frequent enough for competition. I know that there are several birds that "drive" my kit. Problem right now is that I only have two compartments--breeding and flying. I have purchased a 8' x 12' three compartment loft which should get delivered in two weeks. This will give me much more flexibility as far as seperating birds according to method of operation. Birds are primarily 3 0r 4 mo;nths old plus 4 last years birds. The older birds do not seem to be causing the problem. Last yeart I culled 75% of the birds that I raised because of this strong flying. Mostly my fault. I fed too much, and fed only the l6% mix. I'm hesitant to cull too rapidly because a dun cock that I kept only because he was physically beautiful (Don' jump my case-I didn't breed from him) this year has turned into a "jaw dropper." When he hits it, my jaw hits my chest. These birds are intriguing and frustrating. There is always some baffling behavior. Yesterday A.M. they were stiff and fast. In the P.M. they flew softer and performed the best ever. Wlhy? Only difference was a 5 mph wind from the west. Also was the first that I had double flown them on the same day. I'll try them again this P.M. and see. One part of me says cull everything and save the bluebar, but I guess that's unrealistic.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
91 posts
Jul 05, 2004
12:22 PM
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Geo, that's a pretty young kit to be worrying about performance. If you have four month old pigeons rolling good the definitely keep them on a mix, I'd go with 14 over 16 percent though, especially in the warm months of summer. If they were mine I'd do just like Scott said and find those fast ones and yank them out. I bet if you watch them eat, when they are finished there are a few cocks in there with their crops full, twice as full as the others. Those can often be your fast leaders or kit cutters. If they were mine I'd find those fast flyers and put the team on straight wheat to balance them out. This also helps to balance out their performance from day to day as well. Don't stress about the wheat breaking them down. Wheat is 14 percent protein for the most part. Good luck.
Brian.
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Mother lode lofts
37 posts
Jul 05, 2004
12:30 PM
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Geo we are all (or should be) breeding for tight,fast,deep spinners,but we do want to also strive for them to be frequent enough to enjoy,over frequent is a problem also,I'll get stiff and I'll get overfrequent,it's the ones inbetween that I'm striving for and it's a moving target,Brians right the kits to young to mess with,but at that age I wouldn't mess with the feed as they are just babies still,as some in the lead start coming into the roll they'll change position in the team,generally though once I have enough coming the roll I try to get them all in one box
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Sourland
Guest
Jul 06, 2004
1:28 PM
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Thanks for the input. Think I was expecting too much too soon. Heck, I don't know any better, and the bulletin and these message boards are my primary sources of information. Should have been able to figure some of it out on my own though. This year I've concentrated on the blood of one of my original hens who had a 100% production record as far as giving me decent birds. Produced one rolldown and five birds that I stocked. The hawks took another 3 that were acceptable to me. (At this point in the game, I'm thrilled if they even roll.) Anyway, all of her young start out flyiong like homers= once they kit up they start rolling and slow down. Two of the troublemakers were sooty blue bar hens(double granddaughters of hers that flew like tipplers.)They've just started flipping(I'm working on ten days without a hawk attack-a rarity for here, and I think the birds are more relaxed.) Anyway the last three days have been great flying with lots of activity. Wish there was an active club in this area. Things that would be immediately evident to an experienced flyer befuddle me. If it were beagle hounds, I'd be O. K. After 45 years of competing with them, I have some slight idea of what's going on. Thanks again-Geo.
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STARFIRE
39 posts
Jul 30, 2004
7:37 PM
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HEY GUY;
YOU GOT A LOT OF GOOD ADVICE BUT I THINK YOU SAID IT IN YOUR LAST POST ==10 DAYS WITHOUT A HAWK ATTACK=THATS WHY THEY ARE ALWAYS FLYING FAST.THEY ARE IN HAWK EVASION MODE.THEY ARE STILL SCARED.IF THE HAWKS LEAVE THEM ALONE FOR A WHILE YOU WILL SEE A BIG DIFFERENCE.THEY WILL SLOW DOWN.
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