George Ruiz
Guest
Jun 23, 2004
10:03 PM
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I have a hen that kits perfect rolls perfect (you can see the hole) yesterday she rolled blood in the eyes .She rolls 5ft to 35 ft and frequent and she has extreme velocity.
What would you guys do with a hen like this?
1.Let her eyes heal and refly.
2.Stock her for breeding.
3.Cull her.
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mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Jun 24, 2004
12:56 PM
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George I would rest it and then throw it back in the kit,if it happened again I would cull it,never ever would I breed a bird with this fault,I've had other families where I would see it but in my main line I never get it and the reason for that is simple,and that is because never have I or those before me with this line ever bred from birds with this fault and it's certainly nothing I would want popping up.
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leo
Guest
Aug 23, 2004
12:23 PM
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The bird should be boxed and sent to me immediately I could explain what took place but there seem to be plenty experts that seem to know all the answers .STOCK YOUR BIRD. Do not let this bird get away...TO you experts you should be so LUCKY........60 yrs in ROLLERS ARE MY CREDENTIALS LEO......
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
156 posts
Aug 23, 2004
2:08 PM
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Leo, what the heck does 60 years have to do with anything? Hell I know lots of guys who have been driving for 60 years and they still can't drive worth a shit! LOL. I also know guys who have had rolles all their lives and still don't know shit either. One thing I do know is this, if you breed from a bloody eyed roller, prepare for more. It is the result of a week capillary either in the eye itself or in one of the protective membranes and weak vessel walls are genetic. I have had a few do it out of one family and even though I let them heal, within a week or two they would do it again. I only had one actually not do it again, but it only bleed 1/3rd of the eye rather than the whole eye filling up with blood. Cull it, Cull it, Cull it. Or better yet, send it to Leo, then he can have a bunch of bloodied-eyed rollers in a few years. Man when I have flown rollers for 60 years, that is the last thing I would want..but some people are just glutton's for punishment..lol.
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 23, 2004
2:27 PM
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Breed it to a beautiful bird of color. The eye effect will be a dazzling contrast to the color of the bird. LOL!
Then send it to Scott. He really likes birds of color!
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 24, 2004
4:19 PM
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George, I posted this same question last year. I just could't cull this little hen that spun blood in both her eyes, she was the best I had ever raised. I bred from her and raised six young. Within six months three of them were spinning blood into their eyes also. I culled her and all the young and the pair that produced her. Just thought this might save you some time,as Motherlode and others advised me to cull her. I did, but it was a year later and time wasted. Mark
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Anonymous
Guest
Sep 03, 2004
1:16 PM
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Before culling any of these birds did anyone look into the birds eyes to see if the defect is noticeable? I wonder if the defect could be seen in the birds eye before it started to roll blood. If so maybe it could be detected in youngsters before they start rolling and they could be culled sooner. Or could it be that these birds are actually higher velocity rollers?
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Thor
16 posts
Sep 04, 2004
4:15 AM
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I'm not sure if this fault can be seen with the naked eye before it actually happens. Blood in the eye is caused by weak vessels within the eye. With a high enough velocity spin, these vessels will burst, hence caused blood in the eye. If so, no one can really stop this process once it is in the genetic makeup. The best solution is not to let such fault penetrate one's stock in the first place.
I remember Rick Mee stating something similar about this one pair he had. If I recall right, he had this pair that produced some of the fastest spinning bird he had ever seen (we are talking about a man who has seen alot of kits from all around the world). Almost everything out of this pair was high velocity spinners. Altho they had it in the velocity department, they also had this genetic deflect which caused them to roll out their eye socket within a year. Maybe it was the velocity these birds packed... maybe it was a weak eye socket... maybe it was a combonation of the two. Who really knows! Just igamine having a stud of high velocity spinners with droopping eyes caused by faulty eye sockets. (grin). If I recall right, the parents to these high velocity spinners had the same problem. The pair and everything they produced was 'culled'.
The moral of the story is, you put out what you put in. If you want a stud of bloody eyed rollers, then go ahead and breed for it.
I can't see myself ever breeding out of such birds if stories like these are true. That's like saying, I'm gonna breed out of a roll down so I can get more roll downs. Why cause more birds to suffer what the first inital bird already went thru.
Just my ramblings...
Thor
P.S. I would have to agree with Brian here... what does 60 years have to do with anything? I know fellows here that are veterens of the hobby and have all but lost interest in what they put into their stock. Acouple of these guys wouldn't even be able to pick out a good spin if they saw one due to their lack of knowledge from being backyard fliers. If not for us newer guys, driving with the inner 'fire' to be great rollermen... these veterens would still be stuck in the past of the great flippers. (grin) Just because someone has 60 years behind doesn't automatically make them a expert Leo. It takes a life time of learning and even then, we still learn something new every day. That's why this hobby is such a great hobby, it keeps us on our feet each and every day... teaching us something new everytime we kick these guys out into the air.
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LEO
Guest
Sep 04, 2004
11:19 AM
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You guys seem to attack new posts with new names ..I believe my post says ...I CAN TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED. Over a year at UC cinti, in the 60s we found astounding differences between roller heads interior makeup and other pigeons, We also worked with medications trying to slow or stop the roll, again we were amazed at our findings. If you guys could see the photos you would soon realize blood in eyes is not a weakness ..in no way. I know what the ..Oldtimers say about it. I am new to this site ..I really wanted to give all this information to all you guys. But my 60 yrs isnt enough experince.
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George Ruiz
16 posts
Sep 04, 2004
11:35 AM
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Leo if you want the bird I will give it to you
contact me at g1ruiz@sbcglobal.net
Thanks George
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Russ
Guest
Sep 04, 2004
12:19 PM
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Leo,
I would like to hear about your findings. I am breeding from a new pair this year that produced some very high velocity spinners. Problem is,so far about 1/3 of the birds bred from this pair spin blood in their eyes within 10 minutes of flying. I'm sure that there are many others out there that would like to hear about your findings as well.
Thanks,
Russ
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Steve Sissel
Guest
Sep 04, 2004
7:14 PM
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Hello Leo,
I to have been raising rollers for 50 + years.
Longivity teaches us alot about pigeons in general.
The comp side of it I am still learning because I have not participated much as I had to work for 37 years before retirement.
Please fill us in on the experiments at the University.
I once sent some birds to the University of Perdue for them to try to find the cause of the roll.
Don't be intimidated by a few.
You will be called an idiot,Lier, and etc. by those that disagree with you but we all have something to give to each other about the hobby and that is our experiences.
Later
Steve
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Thor
18 posts
Sep 04, 2004
10:12 PM
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Hi Leo,
Sorry you took offense to my post. I was just stating that there are guys in my state that have been raising this breed for ages and still don't know any better besides the knowledge of caring for pigeons. Altho I might mention again that there are fellows here who has been raising this breed for over 30 years that I look up at to being very knowledgable in this hobby. Experience in maintaining a high quality stud of Rollers for generations is the key. On another note... what kind of experiments did you do on these Rollers? I would like to hear what findings came out of it.
I know of a University Teacher here who also raise rollers that did experiments on Rollers too but these birds were killed after the experiments. If I recall right, he stated that the birds had to be killed so not to mistakenly used twice. Of course these birds were 'culls' in the first place and were heading down that road anyhow, so...
Altho these experiments had all to do with how smart a roller is and not to any of it's ability to perform, it is still interesting to hear anything about our Rollers. Maybe you can shed some light into why things happen with these experiments... like for example, why would you stock such a Roller that rolls blood in their eye, time and time again?
Flying them,
Thor
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M.H.
Guest
Sep 07, 2004
3:17 PM
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Leo, I live outside of Cincinnati,OH. and have read about the study. I thought I read that the results were inclonclusive or the funding was cut. Please tell us more. Mark
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Mother lode lofts
171 posts
Sep 08, 2004
6:13 PM
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If you want more of them then breed out of these type of culls. I never see it in my family, why is that ?
Scott
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Mother lode lofts
172 posts
Sep 08, 2004
8:00 PM
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Sorry thats not it and I knew that was coming when I threw it out there LOL. I've seen birds not all that fast roll blood in the eye. Why do I have a side of my family that in the worst cases will break off all of the secondies,a few flights and the all the tail feathers, is this due to velocity ? No it is not, it is from poor feather qaulity which is also a fault.
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Sep 08, 2004 8:03 PM
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M. H.
Guest
Sep 08, 2004
8:13 PM
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Scott, You need to stop breeding from birds with poor feather quality. Mark
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Mother lode lofts
173 posts
Sep 08, 2004
9:26 PM
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LOL Mark, your right on the money. I never breed out of such birds even though they don't come spiraling outa the sky due to it like a bird that rolls blood in the eye. What you put in is what you get out. If you want birds that roll blood in the eye then breed out of birds that throw it. If you want non-kitters then breed out of non kitters,and if you want birds with poor feather qaulity then breed out of such. The list goes on and on. But if you want birds that roll hard that don't show these faults then breed out of birds that roll hard that don't show such faults,if one pops up then cull it,in other words purge the family of such faults as much as possible. Personally if I had a pair of birds that threw such faults on a all to often basis I would cull them and everything around them in a heartbeat. That is called moving forward. A good Birmingham Roller is a complete bird all the way around and it can hold up both physicly and mentally plus over all it is just a good pigeon first.
Scott
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