Anonymous
Guest
Jun 11, 2004
6:01 PM
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I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM ALL YOU EXPERTS OUT THERE ON THIS SUBJECT IN YOUR OWN WORDS. NOT FROM THE WRITTINGS OF PENSOM I WANT TO KNOW SO THAT WE THE BEGINERS UNDERSTAND WHAT A BIRD SHOULD LOOK LIKE WHAT IT SHOULD FEEL LIKE WHAT FEATHER QUALITY SHOULD LOOK LIKE AND WHY NOT BECAUSE YOUVE LEARN TROUGH YOUR EXPERIENCES AND IF YOU COULD DESCRIBE YOUR FAMILY OF BIRDS SUCH AS (REEDS,PENSOMS,514,SMITH,ECT.)THIS WOULD HELP US IN SO MANY WAYS WITH OUT ARGUING ABOUT THIS FAMILY IS ECT. JUST CONSTRUCTIVE PLEASE WOULD BE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED BY THOSE OF US JUST BEGINING THANK YOU FOR YOUR THUOGHTS. STEVE
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
81 posts
Jun 11, 2004
8:19 PM
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Steve a lot of what you are asking someone to describe is really something that should be shown in person. Words only tell part of a story and the desciption can get diluted in the process. I am one that cares not what a bird looks like or feels like. It has to show me in the air. I've had birds that looked and felt the part like a champion as described only to be nothing more than an average kit bird at best. What you will find is that in certain families there are dominant physical and inherent traits that are common to the better spinners in that family.
Brian.
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Russ
Guest
Jun 11, 2004
10:22 PM
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Steve, I am no expert so take my comments with a grain of salt. To try and judge your birds by their physical qualities or by what family they are out of is a dead end road. You have to see them in the air and be certain that they are rolling in the proper manner. This should be your only standard. If it rolls right, then it is right! There are birds that 'Look' like the perfect roller but are duds in the air. Then again there are some ugly, off-type looking birds that produce the goods. Most would probably choose the good looking bird on the ground but put them both in the air and it would be obvious which bird was the real roller. Brian is correct, some things you just can't describe with words only. Words can't make the bird roll.
Russ
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Anonymous
Guest
Jun 12, 2004
1:43 PM
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you guys are saying what everyone else says but if you know that some birds roll alsome in the air it does not mean that it would be ok to use as a breeder since it is not of correct type and feather quality, and of right expression i mean i have read article and books and went to many web sites but there are those that have mastered it with such a long time experience. there are so many controversial articles such as deep roller w/ deep roller short roller to deep roller short roller to short roller. and then you have the ones w/color birds that try for the dual porpose and say i want to compete at the w/c level and have good looking birds ect.ect. i just want the real deal and i know its a long road to this level and it sometimes takes a lifetime. to bad that monty nibel did not write a book.
and i dont mean just another book i mean more like a cronicle of his experiences and failures such as trial and error kind of book a weekly journal if you would say.
steve.
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Anonymous
Guest
Jun 12, 2004
1:46 PM
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steve again i think if someone would do such a thing it would help those of us gain a better understanding. of what to and not too. thamks again steve.
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Anonymous
Guest
Jun 12, 2004
4:33 PM
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Steve you sure have alot to learn. You asked for peoples personal experience and I believe that is what you were given in the follow up posts. But then you accuse them of saying what everyone else has already said as if their personal experience means nothing. How insulting! And then you say if Monty was here he would set things straight with a book, like it is just that easy! Everyone else is stupid except for Monty? I think you need to learn the hard way just like the rest of us. Why don't you spend thousands of hours in your own backyard with your birds and write your own book after you win the World Cup with your perfect little pigeons. Then we will compare them with Norm Reed's, Jerry Higgin's, Don Oulette's, Dennis Burke's, and a few others. Maybe then you will understand that there can be no physical standard for a performing roller as each one of these families will look and handle different. They may all share a certain physical characteristic or they may not, but they must all be mentally programmed to roll correctly. It would not hurt you to listen to what has been said before. Oh, I get it now!... You want our secret shortcut. Well OK, first you get some rollers that are -------- inches from base of neck to tip of tail. They must weigh ---- ounces. The body must be perfectly --------- shaped, with a nice ---------- chest. The keel must be -------- long with a ----- pitch. The feathers must be ----, and have a ----- texture. The eye must be ---- with good -----. The tail must be ----wide with good ------. Mentally the bird must have ------, and ------. Now you need to fly them and select the ones that ------ for stock. Select the best youngsters for ---- and ---- and fill up your kit boxes with birds that---- and ----. Well, there you go. In two short years you should win the World Cup if you follow our little secret. That's it! Follow this advice and you will definitely know more that most of the other roller guys. Good luck Steve!
From all of your roller friends who hold all the secrets.
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Jun 12, 2004
5:45 PM
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Steve this is an easy one,get out and see right people and the right kits and ask questions !!!!
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Anonymous
Guest
Jun 12, 2004
8:45 PM
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Steve ,sorry for going off on you in a earlier message. Came home after a bad day at work and wasn't in a good mood to anybody
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Steve S.
Guest
Jun 13, 2004
3:47 PM
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Hi Steve,
You know not what you ask. LOL
There are experienced fanciers but I don't think anyone is as expert or has mastered the roller yet.
I have seen first hand a few World Cup winners kits and their birds and they all look and feel different with varied feather texture and type.
You speak of different men whom had so said famous pigeons and numbers such as 514.
They are long gone but what we have may have been passed down from them BUT:
Everytime a person puts a pair together they take off on another course and have a geno type but not the same bird or even the same performance trait.
True a proven family that has stood the test of time is the avenue to persue if you take what you see and perfect it to the highest level you can.
Many factors make up a good family of rollers but it takes many things to bring the best from them not just the quality of the roll, feather texture and type.
Things like training, feeding, and know How to make the birds perform is very important also.
All I can say is pick the best you can find in the air and try to improve on them and choose a good mentor to teach you.
Later
Steve Sissel
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Anonymous
Guest
Jun 13, 2004
7:34 PM
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i did not want to insult anyone i know there are a few good persons out there that have done well with their birds other than folks who have made a name for themselfs im just tired of the politics in the clubs now and days about colors and certant bloodlines out there. such as my birds are better than those guys and the ones w/pedegree liniage
for there families i want to be able to kick their buts come flight time i want not to just be mediocare i want to
wow them thats why i want to know not what someone wrote 40 years ago and what everyone repeats i want to know from our
newest expiriences of people now there must be a certant way to get there faster. maybe i know that i have to put my time and am willing to but if theres a short cut just let me know thanks guys for your input.
steve
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glenn
6 posts
Jun 13, 2004
11:00 PM
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To:Anonymous (Steve)
There are no shortcuts, unless you buy a couple of kits every year (very expensive) and no fun. The time it takes to breed and fly good pigeons, there are no shortcuts, but a lot of people have tried. Monty Neible is not one of these people, he put in the time. And the wrtings of the past are a source of good info. Try to fine old IRA bullitins and a lot of what Monty wrote is in them. And yes Pensom's article are very enlighting as your learn you will remember you read it somewhere before. Glenn
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