RD
Guest
Apr 29, 2004
5:20 PM
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Has anyone else noticed the full page ad for show rollers in our March/April 2004 Bulletin? Look on page 97.
Should the NBRC be promoting show rollers by allowing these ads in our bulletin or should we stick to promoting our performing rollers only? Personally, I give the show birds a NO vote!
Anybody else care to comment?
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nicksiders
47 posts
Apr 29, 2004
9:59 PM
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Show Rollers are not Birmingham Rollers and should not be promoted as a same breed bird by the NBRC. It is like promoting Racing birds..............the NBRC should not do that either.
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George
Guest
Apr 29, 2004
11:45 PM
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If a person pays and the ad is not offensive then yes they should run the ad .
Remember we live in a U.S.A. and if the N.B.R.C. refuses to run a ad the club could get sued so if they pay and its not of bad taste(the ad ) then just run it we could aviod a big hassle.
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Steve S.
Guest
Apr 30, 2004
10:51 AM
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George,
That legal complaint would not get to a pre-hearing.
The NBRC is a Members Club.
And the members say what goes in the bullitins.
Nothing about Constitutional violation of rights. LOL
The editor Bob Berggren let the ad in to generate $.
The man that placed the add is a member of the NBRC.
Alot of members detest the result but its there.
Any good pigeon man knows the difference between a performing roller and a show (Do nothing roller).
This does not effect the Club other than give us more revenue.
I don't like it but I can live with it.
Look at it this way.
There have been people put adds in the bullitin to just sell rollers and not good ones at that.
Same senerio-- Just another add.
Bob was being generous to the member.
Bob puts in hours of time to make the bullitin and does a good job with alot of NO Thanks and complaints.
We can and will get over this because the real people that fly and promote the Birmingham Roller will continue to do so and laugh at this.
My 2 cents.
Steve Sissel
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Show Roller
Guest
Apr 30, 2004
8:00 PM
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I am the person that put the ad in the NBRC newsletter. I talked to several people before doing this and knew I would probably
offend several people by doing this. This ad was not put in to sell pigeons. I cannot keep up with supply and demand now. The only reason I ran this ad not once, but twice, was to promote the Show Roller. I am a member of the NBRC and agree that this is a flying roller newsletter. As President of the United Roller Club, one of my goals is to try to promote the Show Roller as much as I can in the current year. I do not expect anybody who is a die-hard flyer to rush out and buy any Show Rollers. That was not my intent! My only intent was to get as much exposure for the Show Roller before it is recognized as its own breed. The URC is working with the NPA to get our breed recognized. As I have said on Earls List, the only thing the flying roller and the show roller have in common is the name "roller". I am so sorry if I offended any of the flying roller guys. That was not my intent either. I have had a hard time trying to understand why the fly guys have such a vendetta against the Show Roller guys. I love most of the fly guys and love to watch their birds in the air! As a matter of fact, I had a fly guy looking at my rollers today. He also is a member of the NBRC and I told him about how some of the guys feel who fly birds. He could not understand why some people feel the way they do. Of course, I have known this guy since we were kids and both had flying rollers. I also ran an ad in the American Show Racer year book on Show Rollers. Again, not to sell birds but to promote the Show Roller and get as much exposure as I can. As a retired business man who had 24 stores at one time, I realize how important advertising is. I may not be the brightest candle on the cake, but on the other hand, I don't feel I'm the dumbest dog in the pack. I am still having trouble understanding how in the world some people can be upset when I am spending my own money to help the NBRC newsletter budget. How in the world has this given the NBRC a black eye? You would be surprised at all of the positive e-mails I have received personally from flyers! However, almost everyone who has made comments on Earls Roller list has been negative. Why is this? Again, if I have offended anyone I am sorry. As one of the fly guys said,"Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." Thanks, Ron Simpson
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George
Guest
Apr 30, 2004
8:02 PM
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I agree Steve thanks for the info on the law I was just playing it safe you know how people will sue for any little thing now days ,I had no idea that we could have that kind of control over our publication thats great but I dont think a ad like that will get in any of our members way of cultivating the performing roller as we see fit.
P.S. the birds pictured are very strange looking I never saw any birds like that almost like a roller and a
fantail mix .
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Show Roller
Guest
Apr 30, 2004
8:34 PM
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George
When I sent my Ad money to Bob, if he would have said no that would have been the end of it. I see no harm in what
I did and he must have not have either. I am sure the Show Roller was crossed with something, however I use to raise fantails so I know iy could not have been that breed. The
Show Roller is it's own breed and is not a flying breed.This is the only thing I agree with you on.Most of the Show Roller guys do not like the look of the Flying roller now that the have raised Show Rollers, but they don't put them down like some of the fly guys do our breed.
I doubt if one fly guy will look at my Show Rollers in the NBRC newsletter and say " boy that is a good looking bird"
and run out and buy some.The birds are too different. Like I said before, I am only trying to get the Show Roller reconized. I am not asking any of the fly guys to like them
let alone buy any.There is even some talk about changing
the name of the Show Roller to the AMERICAN ROLLER. Did
you read what Bob Simpson wrote on Earl's list and his opinion of the ad I ran? RON
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Anonymous
Guest
Apr 30, 2004
9:06 PM
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If you are going to change the name , why don't you drop the 'Roller' part? It seems kind of stupid to call a bird a roller when it is obviously something different. That's like calling my pit bull a 'show chihuahua' because he is mixed with something else. Do you think that the AKC breeders of Chihuahuas will appreciate that?
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George
Guest
Apr 30, 2004
9:35 PM
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Ron I did not intend to put any breed of pigeons down I understand that all people are different and like different things If you like the show roller thats cool with me I do see that you are dedicated to them so keep up the good work and never mind the haters as long as your having fun thats all that matters .
George
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fhtfire
2 posts
Apr 30, 2004
11:00 PM
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What happened to respect for anyone who loves to raise pigeons. Who cares if someone put an ad for a show roller in the NBRC newsletter. It is just an ad. I feel that a pigeon person is a pigeon person...you love the hobby of raising pigeons. It should not matter if it is a roller, fantail, White king or a damn barn pigeon, you still have a love for pigeons. Let us not forget that they are all still pigeons. This reminds me of another conflict that I have just experienced. I own a show muscle car and I get HOT ROD magazine. HOT ROD magazine ran a Honda civic as one of its feature cars. This civic was one tricked out car! Lots of time and money spent to make this car look so awesome. Well, the letters poured into hot rod magazine...people were mad that it was not a Chevelle SS or a 67 Ford mustang or a Dodge Charger that was the feature car, People were saying that the civic was not a hot rod. The editor wrote back.....did the civic take countless hours to build, does it have custom paint, is it fast, do people stop to look at it....well then it is a hot rod. He also remined people that times are changing...that a true hot rod is a 29 T-bucket or a 34 Ford or a 39 Chevy....but yet with the changing times those hot rods were hard to find...then came the muscle cars that replaced the true hot rods of hot rod magazine.....now the rice rockets are moving in....well the editor also said....It is about the love of cars ...don't ever forget that......Well it is for the love of pigeons....don't ever forget that! Who cares if there is an ad in a NBRC newsletter....if you do not like it move on and read about the perfoming rollers, or read the ad and learn something about a possible new breed...now that is exciting. Well, that is all I have to say. I like birmingham rollers...I have a friend that likes homers....but we both love pigeons!
Thanks,
Paul Fullerton
Last Edited by fhtfire on Apr 30, 2004 11:01 PM
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Show Roller
Guest
May 01, 2004
8:57 AM
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Anonymous - Since there are about 25 different kinds of
Tumblers and some of them are fly breeds that still tumble
should the ones that are breed for Show only change there name also?
Paul - Great post and super comments that make a lot of sense. Hopefully more and more people will start thinking
like you do. It took the white man a lot of years to except the American Indians and the black man. Unfortunately some people have still never thought of them as their equal.This in my opinion is old fashion and small
minded thinking by just a few people. It is the same with
some of the fly guys. This is not to say that some of the Show Roller guys still think this way also. I like what
Bob Simpson said about FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND FREEDOM OF THE PRESS. Lots of people have died fighting for their freedom and their right to be able to choose what they
believed in. I beleive in the Show Roller and love this breed and plan to promote this breed every chance I get.
Where ever there is more than two pigeon people gathered
guess what I will be talking about. Thanks, Ron Simpson
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Show Roller
Guest
May 01, 2004
9:09 AM
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George
Thanks for the comeback!! I not only like the Show Roller but love this breed. I still like the flying Rollers also and may get back into them some day.I had a fly guy friend here yesterday that was trying to buy a small flying loft he built for me 20 some years ago. I can not bring myself
to sell this double kit loft because I keep thinking I might get some flyers again some day. I also have Racing Homers and American Show Racers that I play with so I can stretch myself any further right now, but maybe some day. RON
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showguy
5 posts
May 01, 2004
10:32 AM
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Ron
I agree with you there are many tumbler breeds that don't tumble,there are show racers that don't race and there are Domestic Show Flights that don't fly. What is the problem with us referring to our breed as show rollers.The movement by some of us to get our breed offically recognized as a show roller or American Show Roller is a good thing.Our show roller is truely and American creation and we are proud of it.We should not be promoting our show rollers as birmingham rollers or pure bred pensom rollers because they are not and it is an insult to the many dedicated performing roller people out there.It is great that there so many fly guys out there breeding for performance and keeping alive the unique character of the birmingham roller.
I know you fly guys think our show rollers are deformed looking but some of the other show breeds out there are really deformed looking but someone loves them.This is just a hobby and everyone needs to enjoy it in their own way.An add for show rollers in the NBRC newsletter is not going to damage your hobby and you make a few bucks. I might add that the URCA would welcome an add from a flying roller fancier anytime.
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Show Roller
Guest
May 01, 2004
12:07 PM
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Show Guy:
Super comments! Truer words have never been spoken. You are right when you say this is a hobby and it is great that the fly guys still keep up with tradition. As we both know, things change, people change, and pigeons change. This is what keeps our country exciting. Hope all is going good for you. I have about 70-75 banded so far this year. Have some exciting new colors and hope you & Joe can fly in again this year and we can look at pigeons and have as much fun as we did last year!
Your friend,
RON
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
May 03, 2004
6:24 PM
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What Ron is doing to promote his breed of choice he should be commended on,but as a member of the NBRC I don't want to see it done in our club bulliten (NBRC)as this bulliten is not an all breed magazine,it's for Birmingham Rollers,and no we dont need the extra revenue,in my mind a mistake was made in putting in add to promote another breed,this is certainly nothing that I'll loose sleep over but I believe that memberships voice will be load enough to put a stop to it. thats my opinion
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Show Rollers
Guest
May 03, 2004
9:13 PM
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Mother Lode
Thanks for saying I should be commended for trying to promote the Show Roller.I however do not agree with you on your opinion that the NBRC should not let other Roller breeds run ads in OUR(NBRC) club newsletter. Our URC Club motto is PROMOTTING SHOW ROLLERS ACROSS AMERICA. If a flying roller guy wanted to run an ad in our newsletter we (URC) would welcome the ad. It wouldn't do any more good for the fly guy in a Show Roller newsletter than it did for me in a fly Roller Newsletter would it? I guess I don't understand your way of thinking. Sorry, RON
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Dave Moseley UK
Guest
May 03, 2004
9:47 PM
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I've looked at the artical on show rollers in the NBRC , personaly I dont know how u can call this big ugly monster a roller , this bird would never perform in the air and would not stand a chance of flying to any standard of a roller , if u create a bird like this then at least have the decency to give it a right full name of its own lol
Dave Moseley
UK
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
May 03, 2004
10:10 PM
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Ron,you have no interest in the performing Roller or the NBRC,the only reason that you are there is for a fishing expedition,you don't understand where I'm coming from because your not a part of us and your motives were self serving,you made mention of knowing that it would upset members in the club and yet you went ahead with it anyway and putting our editor in an awkward potition,all I can say Ron is "bullshit" and thats how I feel whether you understand it or not.
Scott Campbell
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Show Roller
Guest
May 04, 2004
8:57 AM
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Scott
you are wrong about several of your comments.You are right about a few others.I do have an interest in the fly birds but not a passion for them like I do they Show Birds.I still keep a fly loft on my property that I may use again some day.The annual " Ohio Fly In July" ended at my house last year and I went to their picnic with them. A friend and me are about to make a trip to Pa. at the end of the month to visit two old friends that are fly guys. I can go on and on about this subject. As far as fishing I do not under stand what you mean there. As far as being self serving you might be right if you are insinuating I did this to promote the Show Roller. If you mean I did this to promote my own birds, you are wrong. I don't have to do this because there are so few of us compaired to the fly guys that everybody knows who I am.I could sell twice or three times as many birds as I raise now. You are right
about making some fly guys mad. I did know this would happen. I want everyone that raises rollers of any kind
to know that the Show Rollers are NOT A PERFORMING BREED
this breed is not bred for the air. They are bred to look
a certain way, act a certain way,We have our own standard.
Like I have said over and over and over they are their own breed.They only thing in common is they still use the name roller.I doubt too many plow horses could win the Kentucky
Derby or just the opposite.I am only trying to get some people to reconize that there is a difference. Most of the
fly guys even admitt that when they call them big turkeys or big fat looking birds.Big over sized crows and all the other names they have labeled them with.Again they are not a performing breed and are not bred for the air but for the Show cage. I can not understand why some of the fly guys can accept this and other can not.I will however
keep promoting the SHOW ROLLER and keep trying to educate
the fly guys and a few other breed people that there is a
fying breed of Rollers and also a Show breed of rollers that only share the last name ROLLER. I am however sorry about putting our editor of the NBRC is such a precarious
situation. Whether you believe me or not,that was not my intent and never dreamed in a million years anyone would come down on him and help bite the hand that helps feed them!!!! I think he puts out a great newsletter and I am very jealous that we(URCA) can not get this amount of material that he comes up with. Scott I am sorry you think
this is all BULLSHIT. In my mind it is not. I guess I am
glad I am an American and can voice my opinion with out
getting myself in too much trouble. I am also glad you can too, even if I don't always agree with some of your opinions you post on this All Roller site talk. Thanks,
Ron Simpson
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showguy
6 posts
May 04, 2004
11:21 AM
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Dave
There is a movement within the show roller community to get our birds recognized as show rollers with no connection or claims that they perform. Our show rollers don't have to perform they only have to walk and conform to a standard that we have established. We don't want to be confused with the skinny long legged scare crows you guys fly. I bet you didn't like that last sentence did you? I put that in because I wanted you to know how it feels to have something you like and strive for insulted.Our birds are not big fat turkeys and yours aren't scare crows. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we should all respect that
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Show Roller
Guest
May 04, 2004
2:54 PM
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Showguy
Good post LOL !!! I have been trying to get that point across to some of these guys forever and forever. The Show
Rollers do not fly,they do not have to perform,and most importantly this is not what they were bred for.Just because they came from Flying rollers some people can not accept the fact that a new breed has been created and it is here to stay. They don't have to like the looks of our breed, nor do they have to rush out and buy any.Sooner or later they will have to realize we post no threat to them
or are we trying to discredit the flying roller by breeding what they call an ugly fat deformed bird. I have said many times what you ended your post with" Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" I have seen some guys with some pretty ugly women that they thought were cute.
Just got off the phone with Bob Sayre ( fly guy) and he said that Canton fly might not happen this year. I told him if they had the fly in July this year and needed a place to have it, they could hold it in my new barn I am building. Who said I had no interest in the the fly birds and some of the people who fly? RON
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
63 posts
May 04, 2004
3:06 PM
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Ron, I sit here in wonderment? Are you really that naive? Do you really think there is some population of the flying roller hobby that doesn't know the difference between a show roller and a flying roller? You are a successful educated man so I would think you would realize your claim of educating the masses is a little "out there"! I figure myself to also be of solid mind and it seems to me that you had your ad published on purpose, maybe because you are board in your retirement. I don't know. What I do know is that as a publishing editor one has to be flexible and that all things will pass in time. But please don't assume that I or any other member of the NBRC is so ignorant as to not know the difference between a Modena sized show bird and a flying roller. And to add injury to insult, don't you think it would have been best suited if maybe you would have ran a 1/2 page or other size incremental instead of a giant full page you knew very well would enrage the fire of distain within the devout readers? I know you are enjoying this to the max, whether you would admit it or not. Personally I found it to be quite tasteless given the intent, but like most, I just turn the page to something I would rather see or read.
Brian.
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Show Roller
Guest
May 04, 2004
3:52 PM
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Brian
You pose some very good questions however I don't think it is a question of whether some people know the difference or not.I am sure there are very few people that do not know
the difference between the two.The big question is why are some of the fly guys so down on the Show Roller guys or Show birds.Maybe I am naive because I can not understand this at all. The ad was in good taste that I ran.Why some guys got upset makes no sense to me. I do not know what the size of the ad had to do with anything. You are right about me putting this ad in on purpose.I did run this ad ,
but not for the reasons that some people would like to believe I did. Brian,I can assure you I am not enjoying this dicing back and forth like I have seen the guys do on Earl's Roller list and here on the All Roller Topic page.
I am only defending what I think is fair and right.I am sorry that some of the fly guys see this as a crime that I have committed.A lot of the Show Roller guys that have seen
what I am trying to defend have said to me " why waste your
time and energy"? Let me ask you a question. If the table were turned would you feel so passionate about the Flying
Rollers to defend them like I have done? I think the answer would be yes. I have seen you and mother lode go toe to toe about issues you feel very strongly about many
times here on the All Roller Topic.Like I have said before, why can't there be room for both breeds? Why can't some of the Flying roller guys promote what they love in some of our publications and why can't we do they same. Why does it have to be black or white? Ron Simpson
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
65 posts
May 04, 2004
4:30 PM
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Ron, Roller flyers are a critical bunch, especially those who really take the sport and breed seriously. If a person is a member of the NBRC they are most likely not a novice and know the difference. Of all things that draw the most negativity in flying Birmingham Rollers, color and show rollers draws the most distain. It's like if your ex wife and the guy she cheated on you with then married suddenly barged into your home and sat down on your couch uninvited...you are going to be pissed! Same with the general concensus of Birmingham Roller flyers. The NBRC is their home, their coven of passion, the hub for their hobby from which all things extend. The show roller has long been seen as the mongrelization of what the original intended and developed flying roller is suppose to be. Call it bastardizing if you will. A vast majority of roller flyers and breeders do not breed other breeds, and many do not attend other breed shows. They are flyers and chose to be true to the roller. There are some like myself who also raise show breeds. I raise West of England Tumblers for show and will very soon be a Master Breeder of them. I also breed Helmets and Mookees for show. I am as competitive about showing as I am about flying, but my rollers always come first. The West was once a flying breed cultivated for performance, but we Americanized it to a totally different breed. Many of the guys who still fly them don't care for the show type and many of us when we see a flying West look at it as nice, but a cull by our standards. We do our thing, they do theirs. I don't expect to see other breed ads in my other breed bulletins just as I don't expect to see an ad for Wests in the NBRC bulletin. It would be in the same bad taste in my opinion. You know very well that show rollers are considered the enemy and when you cross the line into the oppositions territory, expect reprocussions. That is just the way the world works. You might be opened armed to other breeds, just as I am for certain ones, but when it comes to rollers, it's a different world. If you step back and look at it from a neutral position, it would seem you are asking for a fight.
Brian.
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
May 04, 2004
5:29 PM
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The only reason that we are even having this conversation is because you guys keep stepping into our playground,first you are invited onto our list by some schmuck,so we started another one that will allow "only" fliers,then here comes a full page add in our bulliten,exscuse us if we get a little bent out of shape for the Show Vultures trespassing on our turf,and maybe you should take a look at what the goal of "this" site is,I havnt seen a topic yet where you people add anything,are your ranks so small that you have no where to go or what ?,don't you have your own sites and bullitens ?
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Show Roller
Guest
May 04, 2004
7:47 PM
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Mother Lode
I dropped off Earl's list because of all the negative comments and all the grumbling about some of my writings about show rollers. I started to put a few things on the all roller topic because I was asked to. I have read almost all of your comments and opinions about almost every topic that has been posted. You seem to be able to comment about every topic that comes along and voice your opinion. Scott, you must be the smartest guy in the world about rollers or the most opinionated guy that has ever come along. As far as what I have seen you contribute is mostly trying to belittle some other guy about something he said or some comment you did not agree with. Clean up your own back yard before you accuse someone of crapping in yours. Why must you always be so negative toward people; not just me, but everyone. You and several other people have tried to undermine what Tony Chavarria has this site for. This site is not only for the flyers. Yes, we do have our own chat room and we have about a dozen or so show roller clubs and each one has its own newsletter. I can assure you that I would be ashamed if any of my show roller friends would try to belittle any of the flying roller guys on any of these sites or any of our publications. Since you always try to get the last word on all your debates and posts, I will let you get it here also. After all, I am on your playground! The only thing that comes to mind after reading your last post is a term I've seen a lot of guys use on Earl's list- "LOL"
RON
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Newbie
Guest
May 04, 2004
9:57 PM
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I have only had birds for about 7 months. I started with Homers. Then I heard about rollers and became interested. I went to a pigeon show, and now I have a couple fancy birds also. I have always be into pigeons, since I was a kid. I have interests in racing homers, showing some fancy birds, and training a couple kits of Birminghan rollers. I see it as they are all pigeons. They just have different purposes, either flying or showing. You still have to selectivly breed, raise, and train all of them.
I am getting so sick and tired of the "Gang" Wars. "you're a low life color breeder, because you have a laced roller in your kit. You're not a roller flyer, you're a wanna be" "Homers are only good for squab." etc. Most all negative coments about ALL other types of pigeons, are coming from hardcore roller flyers. Why does it have to be all performance roller and nothing else? I plan on breeding and training a couple kits of rollers (two seperate families) for competion, and maybe someday I can have rollers that are good enough to place in the W/C. I also plan on racing homers and showing my show birds.
To cover a few points from other comments above...
1. I did not know the difference between show rollers and performing rollers until recently. and I am currently a member of the NBRC, for now. But I don't know if I can keep listening to this negative talk about anything that isn't a true Birmingham Roller. Yes I do want to breed my rollers into better performers, always striving for the best, but I am still gonna work with my other breeds.
2. I don't see a problem with the ad. "we don't need the revenue"??? A club is just like a business and the purpose is to not go broke. As long as ads are being sold, our membership fees and other club related fees are less likely to go up. As long as it is pigeon related, it is of interest to a lot of other fanciers. It is not like it was an ad for enlarging your junk, or astrology hotlines. If you want to prevent ads not to your liking, then buy some ad space so Bob Berggren don't have to look for other ones. Or do more to help the bulletin by contacting some companies like Kay-Tee, Foy's, etc and try to talk them into contacting Bob about buying ad space. Bob did what he felt was best for the bulletin, and he should be thanked for putting together such a fine magazine every couple months.
By the way, did you notice all the articles orginally written about racing pigeons or the tippler article? or all the short fillers from FBIpigeons.com, that stands for "First Birds In" a racing pigeon website. Why is no one yelling about the racing homer promotion? That don't help the sport of flying rollers. Bob must have been short on material to fill the bulletin, so he has to find anything related to pigeons to use as filler. Maybe more members should start writing articles, tips and stories as well as sending in photos to help contribute to the bulletin. I would but I am still learning, and don't know much about them yet.
It's all about pigeons. How good you breed, not what you breed. How good you take care of them. How good you train them. And how good are the results of your hard work.
Anyway, good job Bob. You are doing great with the Bulletin, keep up the good work.
Just my opinion
Rob
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
May 04, 2004
10:00 PM
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Gee Ron you knickers up in a twist or what LOL,am I opinionated,yea you bet,if I think that I can help am I going to offer my opinion,yea I'll stick my neck out and offer help if I'm able,I've yet to see any of you show roller guys even try to help out on basic health questions,I came to this forum because the headline said " to promote the breeding training and flying of the Birmingham Roller" but somehow you guys weasled in through a crack and got a foothold,the showroller is no differant than a Modena,Helmet or any other showbreed but I dont see "them" pissing in others backyards,as for the NBRC that crack that you are trying squeze through is going to shut real quik and thats a fact not an opinion,trust on that one,like I said earlier we have a new list that you or nonfliers will not be able to penetrate,as for this forum,hey it's all yours and I'm sure that you guys will be a great asset here,try sticking your neck out a little bit though and at least try offer at least basic advice on the pigeon in general questions,everyone enjoy,fly hard,kill every crossbred color mongral that you can get your hands on,and beware of the so called showroller,later,I'm off,they won,at least here.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
66 posts
May 05, 2004
1:04 PM
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Rob, first off welcome to the joys of roller flying. Now, Why does it have to be performance and nothing else? Because that is and was the original plan and design for the Birmingham Roller, and any deviation, especially one that turned a performance bird into a nearly impossible to breed giant show bird is seen to the purists in this sport as a travesty! Don't like it, get over it, that is the way it is. Don't try to change the world, just turn the page. I raise other breeds too and when my good friend Scott here gives me shit about it, I just tell him to go screw himself, we laugh, and move on. Keep the world simple man.
Pigeons are indeed just pigeons and we all love them to some degree. No one is saying that you can't or shouldn't breed other breeds, there is just a time and place for the promotion of it is all. Come here for rollers, go there for some other breed. Like, put all red circles inside the bin for red circles. Put all the blue squares inside the bin for blue squares. Put all the green triangles inside the box for green triangles. Remember this? It was taught to us at a very young age to cultivate the understanding of how to differentiate and keep the same together.
Your comment about the solictation for additional revenue for the NBRC bulletin is a good idea. I would also like to add that this forum is not the NBRC website, so please don't confuse the two. You won't find Bob here so you might want to forward your response to him via email.
The addition of the articles from the racing homer and tippler sources has been one of the greatest things to happen to the NBRC of late. It provides up-to-date and accurate health and medicial information we in the roller world are usually not privy too. The AU has a large contingent of DVMs and authors who provide great information that is well suited for all pigeons, not just a racing homer. You don't see advertisements for racing homers or tipplers do you. The two concepts are quite different.
It truly is all about enjoying pigeons and we each enjoy something the same and something a little different than the next guy. The key here is not to get your panties in a bunch over thinking you are being surpressed or the roller gurus are attacking the world of pigeons. We are not. Some are just presenting their ill feelings towards the publicizing of a bird that most roller flyers deems as not a roller at all, and in our own clubhouse, the NBRC. That is reality man. Either learn to deal with it or grow painfully dispaired and lose all interest all together.
Brian.
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Show Roller
Guest
May 05, 2004
4:33 PM
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Brian
Everything you have said here makes perfect sense. I will
back off and let the Show Guys do their thing and the fly guys do theirs. I thought there was a possibility of some type of unity between the two groups but I was wrong.I am
getting some negative comments from even some of the Show
Roller guys as well. Maybe after we are reconized by the NPA some of the fly guys might feel differently about
everything. I am sorry things turned out as badly as they did and some people were caught in the middle. Thanks for
putting everything in perspective. RON
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
68 posts
May 05, 2004
4:55 PM
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I know some might tell you not to go away mad, just go away! I on the other hand was hoping that you would be able to understand the mindset of roller flyers in a manner which would be descriptive and I assume that you understood my intentions. Like I said, I am a show/fly guy too, but you have to understand there is a line drawn in the sand when it comes to the Birmingham Roller as it is seen by the hard core flyers who are not afraid to make their feelings known, and will go to any extent to protect and defend their ambitions. It is like the war between the Palestinians and Isrealis...no matter how much you would want there to be peace, as long as there are dedicated Birmingham Roller flyers, there will always be negative sentiment towards anything other than what the roller was originally intended to do. You appear to be a intelligent fancier and I would hope that quite possibly you would be able to see the "big picture" and look down the road and be able to evaluate if your decision was truly worth it in the long run. A little advice I learned a long time ago was show and fly are two words that just don't go well together here in the broader spectrum of pigeon Americana. Good luck and no hard feelings. Though we may disagree on specific actions and topics, in the long run us pigeon folks need to stick together otherwise there will be no pigeon hobby of any kind for our children and grandchildren to enjoy.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on May 05, 2004 4:58 PM
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Steve Sissel
Guest
May 07, 2004
10:44 AM
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In reply to Brain McCormicks post.
You are 100% correct that no matter what we all like in the show pen or in the air we must stick together in the efforts of the pigeon hobby.
The hobby will suffer if we all have inner disputes of the things we have just went over.
There are powers out there that be that are trying to pass laws and ordinances to stop the flying and keeping of pigeons in especially urban areas.
If a disease comes up that kills some song birds or chickens, its blamed on the pigeons.
It is good that we discuss the differences we have on the areas of flying or showing and our dislikes but we all that love the birds can work this out to benefit all of the fanciers.
WE all need to put out good info on our hobby.
When I was a kid in the 50's pigeons were raised by lots of young fanciers but now you can't get them interested.
We may be a dying breed of people so we better promote a good image to those out there that may be future fanciers.
Ron I hope and wish you the best in your efforts to promote what you love but think about it. The turmoil that the ad you ran was it worth it?
Anything that brings negativity is no good for the pigeon fancy in its self.
Later
Steve Sissel
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Rollers
Guest
Jun 04, 2004
2:11 PM
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I raisied rollers when i was in my teens.I joined a club,we were a flying clubat first.Then a little late we started to show our birds.The bird where great looking birds.And they would give you 10 foot roller only.These birds were great in the air and show.
I've now been back in the roller business for 3yrs.I took my rollers to the state fair last year,expecting about 250-300 rollers (that the kind of show my old club had)and much to my surprize I was the only one showing rollers.I talked to the judge and guys at the fair,and they told me the rollers are very much Bigger.My rollers are 12oz.they said these birds are very big now.
My question is what happen to the old style showing and flying roller? Thanks DRA
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Anonymous
Guest
Jun 04, 2004
3:42 PM
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They were better tasting than they were at showing or rolling!
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Rollers
Guest
Jun 04, 2004
3:57 PM
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I thought this was a talk on topics.I wasn't looking for a Joke!
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Anonymous
Guest
Jun 04, 2004
8:20 PM
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You can have one or the other. You can't have both. And that's no joke!
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Roller
Guest
Jun 05, 2004
7:18 AM
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I guess you are right.Pigeon people are very different NOW!!
They act like 2YR olders.I should take the other road and do FALCONRY!!!!!!!
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warbie
Guest
Jun 05, 2004
5:50 PM
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To all of the show roller pigeon fanciers. I would just like to say that I commend you on your interest in promoting your birds (pigeons ). I do not raise them but that doesn't mean that I don't find them interesting. I am a lover of all pigeons. I have read and researched many breeds. It just happens that the Birmingham Roller has my heart. There is nothing quite like watching these birds perform, when you spend your life trying for that perfect roller. I can also relate to the feelings you show-guys must get when you breed a new colour or what you guys would consider a perfect bird. Or a fantail fancier raising what he considers great birds. I agree with one of the posts that said we are all raising pigeons here. The showroller guy's ad didn't say show rollers are better than Birmingham's or that Birmingham rollers are any less a pigeon, he was just trying to bring attention to the breed. I think that any person who wants to get into this great hobby (pigeon raising)should explore all pigeons to find out which one is right for them. Some of the guys that posted here are acting like this guy tried to invade your country or steal your home or take your wife. Come on guys, if pigeon fanciers can't be civil to one another then who can we be civil to? We are all in it for the love of the birds whether they are birmingham rollers, fantails , runts, or even show rollers. As for someone mistaking show rollers for Birminghams ( which I highly doubt)we as pigeon fanciers should take it as a great opportunity to educate them on the characteristics of our birds. As for some person taking offence to them being called rollers, come on, get with the program. Not once has any show roller fancier promoted the birds for their rolling attributes. Calling them ugly or deformed is an insult to all of the hard work these gentlemen put into their birds. If you look at the show roller as a Birmingham roller then yes they would look different and that bird that would be culled ( in a Birmingham roller loft) but if you look at the standard these guys are breeding for, then they are great. I am proud to be a Birmingham Roller fancier and have been for the past 30 years. I am not proud of how the Birmingham rollers have been represented on this post. To all Show Roller guys I just want to let you know that not all of us are narrow minded and disrespectful. I respect all pigeon fanciers for their good sense in raising pigeons. I say that you should continue to promote your breed anywhere you can. Knowledge is a great thing and you can never promote too much. To the guys who I think over-reacted here, I say chill out and think of how you would feel if someone started attacking the breed that you have committed your life to. After all isn't all pigeon raising a brotherhood?
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roller
Guest
Jun 05, 2004
7:13 PM
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Thank You Sir
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Mother lode lofts
20 posts
Jun 06, 2004
11:03 AM
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DRA sounds like you had what was called the duel purpose Roller,the showRoller of today has been breed for just that purpose "showing" and today it is a completly differant bird from the performance bird and vice versa,as far as performance goes a 12 oz bird is very large,although there are some larger families of performance birds.
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DRA
1 post
Jun 07, 2004
2:26 PM
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Mother lode lofts,
You are correct,this is a dual purpose roller.I,Myself like this kind of bird.What happen to this kind of bird?
Thanks DRA
Last Edited by DRA on Jun 07, 2004 7:23 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
79 posts
Jun 07, 2004
3:26 PM
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It is my understanding from both literature and conversation that there once was a time when the performing Birmingham Roller was flown on Saturday and shown on Sunday. There was no set standard for what a good roller should look or feel like, nor is there today, only opinion based on the particulars of popular roller structure of that time frame. Soon the interest became divided because some wanted a bird to "look" a certain way and if so, then it would be a champion, regardless of its potential to be a good roller...what they were breed to be...really was. As anyone who flies rollers can attest, a great roller can come in all different sizes and shapes, some flat keeled, some deep keeled, some long, some short, some bull eyed, some pearl or orange eyed, some soft feathered, some hard feathered..etc. When the time came when a judge chose a bird because of its presence in the show pen and was dubbed a champion, real roller fliers who have their birds for performance often shunned the decision because they new very well, often for a variety of reasons, that the bird wouldn't perform worth a crap. Therefore it was not a champion roller in the context of what rollers are. Its like saying a race car is fast because it looks fast. No, it is fast when it gets out there on the track and proves it.
As the crowd divided, the flyers went their way, back to the kit boxes and backyards where the roller is in its true element and those who wanted to show them cultivated a standard which most in that group agreed upon. And like us Americans, we exaggerate everything and just about every breed. The rollers for show soon became bigger and more powerful to please the appetite for powerful, dominating expression and the standard continued to evolve which lead to the continued change in the original bird, well beyond recognition of what it originally was. It was now a show bird, no more, no less. A clump of genetic material specifically designed and sculpted for visual pleasure.
Many flying roller clubs and organizations host Performing Roller shows in which many fanciers enjoy the opportunity to display some of their fondest flyers amongst their peers. These events are more of a gathering of friends. Judging is done using modern scrutiny such as condition and health, but usually in the end it is the bird that best represents what a great flying roller "can" not "should" look and feel like. There is no standard, but only the judges impression of what he or she feels is a great example of a bird with the potential to perform with excellence and exhibit a confident expression. The bottom line is you cannot set a standard of visual perfection and expect it to include performance perfection at the same time. Some of the ugliest rollers can often be the best a flyer owns. In the end, it is what they do hundreds of feet above the show pen that matters the most. Dual purpose is a figure of speech, an allowance that warrants the accepted action of passing judgement on a roller both in the air and in the show pen. But even still, a dual purpose roller should always be judged first in the air, then in the show pen, otherwise you are just raising pigeons.
Brian.
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Mother lode lofts
21 posts
Jun 07, 2004
4:08 PM
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DRA Brian pretty well explained it,basicly the duel purpose Roller went the way of the doe-doe bird,the ShowRoller is bred by a standard and can no longer perform and probaby would have a hard time even flying compared to a Birmingham Roller or any performance breed for that matter,a performance bird would be a cull in a ShowRoller show and a showroller would be a cull in a performance loft,they are that far apart today,the only thing these bird have in common these days are that they are both "pigeons",but it's not a bad thing as they do what they enjoy and we do what we enjoy and we all love pigeons,the bottom line is that these both are two completly different breeds of pigeons but the roots of the ShowRoller developed from a performance breed,kinda like todays Poodle
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Jun 07, 2004 4:09 PM
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DRA
2 posts
Jun 08, 2004
2:16 PM
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Mother lode lofts & Brian.
Thanks alot for the infor.These questions are like pulling a horse's tooth to some roller guys.
DRA
Last Edited by DRA on Jun 08, 2004 2:17 PM
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