rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
92 posts
Apr 09, 2004
12:16 PM
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I recently flew a kit that had a couple out birds and as I was flying a 15 bird kit, it was costly in points (not to mention the two red tails that showed up). I have culled the 2 birds in question and observed an immediate improvement over next few days.
What might you have done differently as far as keeping them in the kit and working with them more or just removing them once and for all? FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
55 posts
Apr 09, 2004
1:50 PM
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Tony, I am one who absolutely hates out birds. But I also believe there are often reasons we have to figure out when a bird "suddenly" becomes an out bird as compared to one that always exhibits the problem. If the birds you mentioned were kitting fine before, I would say it is probably one of a few things that I often try to consider. If you were hit by red tails, or they were in close proximity to the kit, sometimes a bird or birds that have been hit before will freak out and get gone, leaving the kit behind. These are often the more high-strung ones.
Then we have season. Right now everything with sexual organs is wanting to breed. As you know our weather has been pretty nice here lately and even I have been battling with solid kit birds that are flying out of the kit. Seems it is more than possible there is too much mating going on in the kit box.
The other thing is were the two birds really frequent for the past few weeks. I pay close attention to the hard working hens because if they they roll solid for a few weeks, at some point they simply wear out. You'll see this when suddenly they make their usual turn back to the kit, then for no apparent reason turn the opposite way and are reluctant to rejoin knowing they will only roll again and they are simply whipped tired.
I don't cull these that do it suddenly, though at the moment I want to pull out the gauge and drop them like the first bird on opening day of Dove season. I will fly them one more time and see what the story is. If they do it again, I will just move them from the main team to another younger kit and let them regroup mentally and physically. I have a few hens that need a vacation every other month or so. I know they are ready to return to the more active main team when they fly solid with the younger birds.
Brian
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Apr 09, 2004 1:52 PM
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Paul Fullerton
Guest
Apr 09, 2004
3:50 PM
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Tony,
Instead of wacking them...Sell me the two hens and throw in a cock and I will breed them and see what happens. I have a nice little blue bar from my Utah birds[ who just had his mate escape on accident (4year old son)..hawk wacked her. Moved their eggs to a foster. The cock I have without a mate rolls really nice and stays with my group. Just a thought. You cull and I need to start experimenting to get a kit going! lol Let me know what you think.
Paul Fullerton
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Steve S.
Guest
Apr 09, 2004
6:12 PM
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Tony,
There are different reasons why birds that have been flown turn into out birds.
As you say they were hens it could be any of the following:
1- The hens could be taking on the mateing urge if you don't use the dark kit boxes or even have eggs forming.
2- Fast changes in different feeds and the amounts.
3- Sickness--either a bacterial,parasite or worms.
4- Introduction to preditors of some sort.
5- Last and the WORST , After being flown out as you said for the 2nd year the non-kitting trait may kick in and show itself.
In this case check the parents traits of non kitting and if it is there it will show up in the youngsters after you breed them of which we have to eliminate this type of roller.
Instead of immediate culling try to correct anything you can do humanly before culling but you were 100% correct for pulling the 2 birds for being out-birds as we don't want to instill the habit in the other kit birds.
Later
Steve S.
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Apr 09, 2004
8:27 PM
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I would boot them into one of the lower kits and see if they straighten up,if they were just to frequent I would hold the roll back with protien and fat but they should have still shown the heart to try to hang with the kit,if they dont get it together within a few weeks then I would cull,and do Paul a favor and "DONT" send them to him LOL,also when you are setting up for a fly make sure that everyones getting thier full share
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Mother Lode
Guest
Apr 09, 2004
8:30 PM
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Good point Steve,yea make sure that they arent eggy or mated up,if they are you are being to nice to them !!!!
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Paul Fullerton
Guest
Apr 10, 2004
8:57 AM
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Oh Scott your killing me! How about a little love man! I need some birds. I was just giving Tony a hard time..He is trying to hook me up. Since I do not have the problem with birds leaving a kit...because for one I have no kit and two, only half my birds roll! lol. I would give my left *$tt to get some good stock to start with and have a kit in the air. I do have a nice kit box I just finished!...Thanks for the jab scott. Just so you know I am going to go to the fly with that guy from west sac you told me about. I just have to give him a call and confirm!
Good luck Tony!
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Mother Lode
Guest
Apr 10, 2004
9:54 AM
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I was showing love paul LOL,thats great that your hooking up for a fly with the Sac guys, did you contact Ken Firle ? Kens a good guy and a friend of mine.
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canada
Guest
Apr 11, 2004
2:58 AM
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Does anyone know how I can log on to Motherlode web page
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Apr 12, 2004
7:10 AM
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Sorry no webpage,I can hardly spell my owm name let alone put one of those together
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
94 posts
Apr 20, 2004
9:39 PM
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Hey Steve, just wanted to let you know I took you up on 2 of your points:
"1- The hens could be taking on the mateing urge if you don't use the dark kit boxes..."
"2- Fast changes in different feeds and the amounts".
On the first, the kit box floor was all wire which allowed in huge amounts of light, also has several ventilation holes allowing light in. I covered the floor with a sheet of wood and stuffed paper in the holes.
Initially with all the light, I noticed that a few hens and cocks had paired up and found favorite corners or perches to stir the juices...cooing and chasing each other around the box.
Now it is really dark in there. After a few moments of actually being in the dark, they all got really quiet! I would hear some cooing and movement but just a fraction of what it was.
I am happy to say after a few days it has stayed that way. Now when I open the kit door to look in on them, they are virtually silent and almost all on their own perch and seem a little surprised by all the light coming in.
They are also all kitting much better, they are now flying more as a kit. The ones that roll deeper are actually working harder to get back to the kit instead of taking off on their own to be joined by some of the others.
Some more work is needed but I am hoping a few more days will do the trick.
As to point #2, I had in one day taken these birds off of pigeon pop 16% and put them on wheat. I have done this successfully in the past...
I started them back on the pigeon pop. They are flying about 30 to 35 minutes and not so ragged looking.
I'll keep this up for a while as well and see what happens. I may play with the feed amounts before the next fly but whatever I do, I will try to keep them airborne for 30 to 35 minutes and get them used to that.
So thanks for the input it seems to have helped. FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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highrollers
9 posts
Aug 20, 2004
6:56 PM
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I had the same problem once found out later there where six coopers living nearby they inventually killed my whole kit over time!
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