highroller
2 posts
Mar 13, 2004
8:02 AM
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Tony, I enjoyed your article on the value of culls. I have had some of those thoughts for quite a while but only ever heard "cull and cull hard". I have given away or sold very cheap many of my "culls" to young guys getting started. I learned the hard way not to give out my good birds right off the bat. Most often these newcomers do not understand what it took to find that good bird and they try to fly and breed them at the same time and lose them to raptors or just plain lose them to poor loft management. They need these culls many times just to learn the ropes and then when they have proven themselves they can get my or someone else's better birds.
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nicksiders
35 posts
Mar 13, 2004
5:11 PM
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I never sell or give away my culls especially to the kids or new breeders. I will give or sell them birds I would keep. Giving them or selling second rate birds will not help them in thier enthusiasm for the sport. I give my culls to a local Chinese resturant or to the garbage man and not in the recyclables ben either.
Don't pass on the bad.
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Mother lode lofts
Guest
Mar 13, 2004
6:05 PM
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I think that you both have a good point,but generally handing over topshelf birds to a kid or beginner is a sure way to piss off good birds,I like to feel them out,if they are attending the flys and showing sticking power after a period of time then they get better birds,if they arent attending the flys and showing real enthusisim though I can honestly say that they will never ever get a good bird from us around here,thats just the way it is.
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nicksiders
37 posts
Mar 14, 2004
12:31 PM
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Why is the thinking that if you are not competing you don't have the right enthusiasm. I know guys who fly everyday with untold enthusiasm that never compete. There may be some people who do not like the crap that goes along with competing and others with work schedules that prevent a lot of consistant competition schedules.
Give the young guys/gals second rate birds is definitly not going to encourage them. Your area seems to be filled with a lot of elitist. Why should we test the kids first; they should be testing us first and if we give them good birds we may pass. The kids then will become competitures because we have given them something to compete with.
We wonder why our hobby is getting smaller...............it may be because we are not very nurturing with the kids or new members. We are making them pass our scrutney instead of us working to pass thier scrutney of us. We are chasing them away don't ya think.
Last Edited by nicksiders on Mar 14, 2004 12:32 PM
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Mar 14, 2004
1:22 PM
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I'ts the way it is Nick,I give away more than my share of good birds and have helped out many,but one thing that we don't want to see happen is our hard work pissed off,just the facts of life buddy.
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Mar 14, 2004
2:19 PM
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Nick I might add also that the perforamce Roller is enjoying a lot of growth in our ranks(the NBRC has swelled to over 2,000 strong) and the World Cup Fly and the NBRC national fly have moved us up to the next level as has the internet as far as comunicating with each other and passing info.
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highroller
4 posts
Mar 14, 2004
5:42 PM
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Nick, what would you do if there was a young guy interested in flying rollers but has not had much success in breeding or even having the birds survive so far. Would you turn him away and lose him to the hobby forever or let him use some culls to improve his ability to care for and raise birds? If he understands that he needs to learn to keep these culls healthy and flying and agrees to learn with them before he gets valuable birds, what is the harm in that? He needs to be able to keep birds alive before he needs to worry about the spin. I can't see cutting him off and turning him away just as much as I can't see sending good birds over just to have them die or be lost. Some kids have more trouble picking up the skills/commitment needed to take care of these birds but still have an interest in trying it and I won't turn them away, but I won't piss away good birds anymore either. I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I respect your opinions too.
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Mar 14, 2004
6:48 PM
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Good post Roller,generally I do give them something as far as roll to keep thier interest up,they may have a flaw in the roll or come out a little funky or maybe in and out of the kit too much,in other words culls, but as long as they see roll they don't have the exp. to know that,that we teach them, or they may be late hatch which just arn't in yet and it gives them something to work with as far as fliers and they can learn something about handling them,we are very generous as far as getting new guys started around here as far as helping them out with birds,we generally put a kit in thiers hands at least and set them up with some unproven breeders,I might also add that we do that at no cost to them,but if we think that they are just going to play in the back yard or never be seen again,well then we just send them to places like egg bay LOL,and even after all of this most of them are out of birds after a year or two and it doesnt matter how good of birds you gave them,the ones that do stick are the ones that end up with the "goods"
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
74 posts
Mar 16, 2004
6:53 AM
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HIGHROLLER,
Thanks for responding to the article. I want to clarify a little more: I am in not in any way advocating passing on “junk birds”. I am suggesting that once a fancier has achieved certain goals and expertise, the quality of his/her stock has risen, so much so that what are now considered “culls”, where the kind of birds that were actually used to breed from previously.
An example: I have used a shallow depth hen showing “control” with my stock a few years back. All she ever did was roll with high velocity for just a couple feet, was a good kit bird, performed when the others did and generally caused no problems.
She did not have the “type” I like to see in my birds but when put on any of my stock cocks, she improved the roll velocity, control and her body type blended well so that I like the type and expression from her offspring and descendents.
At this point, I would be less inclined to keep a bird like her but yet I am pleased to breed from her descendents and I like the results I get.
Also, because of where I am with the 7th Step of my Loft System, this type of bird is more of a cull than a breeder. Yet I am sure this hen has value to someone...BTW, this hen has been culled. FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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nicksiders
38 posts
Mar 16, 2004
7:23 PM
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Highroller - I understand what your saying. I just don't think we should be giving or selling JUNK birds to the kids or knew breeders. If you have developed a system that produces good solid birds and your culls are not junk that is one thing, but giving up truly junk birds is another.
I have always generalized that culls are junk birds and I may have to stop thinking that way.
Last Edited by nicksiders on Mar 16, 2004 7:25 PM
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Anonymous
Guest
Mar 17, 2004
6:46 AM
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Nick, what do you consider junk birds? If a new flyer was starting out would you be OK with giving him/her birds that rolled with depth but strayed from the kit at times or birds that rolled frequent but had X style or worse? In my opinion these are not necessarily junk birds but they are definitely culls in my loft. They would however be good starter birds for someone looking to get into the hobby that has no experience with rollers. As long as they kit and roll, then this is good enough for a beginner. We all have to pay our dues! I would like to know where you draw the line on what a junk bird or cull is.
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nicksiders
39 posts
Mar 17, 2004
1:13 PM
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There are birds you WOULD NOT keep and there are birds you CANNOT keep. The birds you would not keep because of poor performance or a deformity are "junk" birds. The birds you cannot keep (there are limits to how many you can keep) are the birds you should be giving or selling especially to the kids or new breeders. The birds you would not keep is the ones you take to the Chinese Restuarant or put in the trash bend.
Last Edited by nicksiders on Mar 17, 2004 1:16 PM
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highroller
5 posts
Mar 17, 2004
5:47 PM
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Well put Nick, that clears up and sums up the subject very well.
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