Steve S.
Guest
Feb 20, 2004
6:10 AM
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I would like to see your different views on this subject.
Some people use the natural selecting and let mother nature cull our weak birds.
Some people use lots of medications.
Your thoughts please.
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Show Roller
Guest
Feb 24, 2004
7:03 AM
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Steve S.
There are two schools of thought on medicating our birds.I
do use a lot of medication during conditioning and show
season. The reason I do is my birds are going to be around
other breeders birds that sometimes do not take care of their birds real well.Some people even bring sick birds to a show.I always try to medicate my birds to keep them from picking up a bug. However if you fly your birds or your birds are not going to be exposed to other peoples birds
medicating your birds a lot could be harmful. The more one medicates, the more you upset the birds natural ability to
fight off a disease by lowering the birds immune system.
Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should use preventative medicines from time to time.Also I think
medicine should be used when one has sick birds. Most of
the time if a person does use preventative medicines they won't get sick birds.It is always a good idea to treat
newly acquired birds before putting them in with your
birds. I am or would not be in favor of natural culling
and only the strong survive method . Why lose good birds
if you don't have to? I believe in the old saying" an ounce
of prevention,is worth a pound of cure" RON
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Steve S.
Guest
Feb 25, 2004
12:56 PM
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Thanks Ron,
Good Post
Steve
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
59 posts
Feb 25, 2004
9:47 PM
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The only preventative I use is a little bleach in the drinking water. If I see a bird going light, I will worm it and the entire group for a few days.
Otherwise I keep it away and let nature take its course. I should say, isolating a bird has also worked wonders.
Simple things to do are: don't overcrowd, feed only dry feed, keep waterers clean, keep loft dry, dont let wet feces build up in the breeder pens. Simple and easy to do but effective against disease. Tony Chavarria
PS I have vaccinated my birds with needle and syringe a few years back as I had a few birds get PMV. I have an article somewhere that I'll post sometime on this episode.
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Feb 25, 2004 9:49 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
13 posts
Feb 25, 2004
10:35 PM
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I once used bleach all the time in my waterers until I learned about the negatives of bleach. Bleach kills everything in its path. Good and bad. Meaning that if you use bleach all of the time like I did, the birds have no natural "good" gut bacteria. And the side effect the by product of bleach is alkyline which as I have read and discovered is a taste environment for E-coli bacteria, namely parathyphoid. I learned this the hard way with my show bird lofts when I got hit with it in one of my young bird conditioning lofts. Took a while to straighten it out and I acidified the loft and switched over to apple cider vinegar. Not a problem since. I use it regularly in the kit boxes and never have a mature bird go down on me. (knock on wood). Medicating is necessary, but not preventative. I argue this endlessly with my racing homer friend. Those guys are pharmacutical freaks with their birds!..lol. Like those of you have said, clean, clean and more clean is good and a little help with vitamins, pro-bios and a little garlic now and then works wonders for the breeders and stock birds. Gotta tip-toe through that for the flyers though. Little at a time or you'll put um on the moon!
Brian.
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
60 posts
Feb 26, 2004
6:16 AM
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Yeah, I agree with you, using bleach can cause problems. I use bleach on rare occassions if I see a listless bird here or there.
I use roughly half a capful of the bleach bottle per 2 litres (large coke bottle size). I also smell the water, if it has a strong odor of bleach I will dilute it. I learned that if you put too much in, the birds will begin panting as though it was too hot! This WAY TOO much.
Do it 1 to 2 days in a row. As far as destroying the good bacteria in the digestive track you are correct. Use a pro-biotic to counter this side-effect that bleach.
In no way do I over medicate. Follow directions on any label is the best advice anyone can offer.
Tony Chavarria
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Mother lode lofts
Guest
Feb 26, 2004
10:51 AM
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Brian I thought that bleach was acidy and created acidy droppings ?,normally I use bleach in the summer months when it's hot,I'll rinse with in in the winter,I also use pro-bio,as for meds I'll use em if theres a problem but if I have a young kit bird go down I'll put him down,I have brought them back before only to have them go down at a later date where nothing else in the box is showing any problems.
Scott
P.S a buddy of mine swears by apple cider vinager,which is acidy
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Anonymous
Guest
Feb 26, 2004
1:27 PM
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Thats what I use.
The applecider vinegar 1 teas. per gal of water daily for prevention of samonela and other bacteria, also with ground garlic cloves in each waterer for the prevention of feather mites and etc.
I use 1 tablespoon of Plain Yogurt in a gal. of water also for putting the good gut bacteria in my birds.
It is the same as probios but alot cheaper.
Steve S.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
14 posts
Feb 26, 2004
2:33 PM
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Scott, bleach is neither acidic or alkyline at the time of use, it's when it breaks down (which is almost immediately, especially on organic surfaces) that is turns alkyline. It is the breaking down by-product. Cleaning with it is cool like disinfecting waterers and stuff. With enough rinsing it will kill then be diluted by rinsing. The preferred is an acidic enviroment (whatever it takes you go get it that way) which helps keep a large number of types of bacteria away. There is no magic cure or prevention, but the ACV is organic and well absorbed into the bird tissue and organs where as bleach is a chemical. When I have a young kit bird go light, I agree with Scott, just can it. None that I have saved have ever turned out to be worth a damn, often getting sick again. Chances are they were also the weak baby you noticed in the nest and wondered if it would make it. In my show birds I have saved many who were caught early going light with a cocktail of goods I have come rely on. First is a heavy dose of Cephalexin (if I think it is bacterial) also sold as Fish Flex. Amoxicillin would be my next choice. If the bird is really light I mix it with some KayTee hand feeding formula and a little vitamins and administer it like I was hand feeding a baby. Some make it some don't. The ones I catch early and shove two pills down their through along with (and this is the magic trick) TWO Ideal pills twice a day. Man I don't know what is in those things but by the of day that bird will be eating and drinking.
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Bluesman
24 posts
Mar 11, 2004
3:20 AM
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Brian you mentioned a pill called Ideal.Does this pill work for a Breeder bird that we sometimes find sitting on floor looking dumpy and won,t eat or drink.I have lost a good breeder now and then and can never figure out what the problem is.Sometimes they will kick out of it on there own.Here in Pa. around this time of year when we have a few days in the 60 degrees and then drops back into the teens & low 20s is when this seems to happen most.They act like me when I get the Flu.I don,t want to treat all the birds as they don,t need it.This pill caught my attention.Any other suggestions on this? And YES it is mostly the Dilutes,Browns or Reduced birds that seem affected.Thanks,David
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
42 posts
Mar 11, 2004
12:51 PM
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LOL Dave, I wasn't going to say anything about the browns...lol But it is not out of the ordinary for them to come down before the more dominants. At any rate I have absolutely no clue what is in the Ideal pills. The stuff is written in German I think, so my crout is a little rusty. All I know is the Racing Homer guys live by them and I do when a bird comes down or I am prepping the show team. They smell awesome, kind of candyish. Either way they are magic. Two or three a day is fine. I just had one of my show red balds go really light before I caught her. Had that sort of death eye. Shoved three of them down her throat and added Baytril to the water. Five days later she looks perfectly fine and ready to rumble again. A sound investment if you ask me.
Brian.
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STARFIRE
35 posts
Mar 11, 2004
1:13 PM
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Hey guys;
I don't think you have to worry about the bleach being too acidic.Bleach is hypocloric acid ,which is what the birds digestive system manufactures naturaly to digest their feed.
1 tsp. to a gal. of water is enough.I don't use much medication for my birds.I worm the breeders before I mate them up.I treat the young with Amprol for coccidiosis and Emtril for canker when I put them from the stock loft to the kitboxes.If I see a bird looking like it is getting light,I pull it's tail out,and give it cod liver oil capsules.It usually works,(don't ask me why,I don't know)My birds don't get a lot of sickness.I dont keep the coop too clean,I figure they have to buid up an immunity to the bacteria in the loft.I have also used Permanganate of Potash in the water to kill the germs.
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
71 posts
Mar 11, 2004
1:25 PM
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Could pulling the tail stimulate the immune system in some way? In the wild, if a pigeon lost a bunch of feathers (pulled tail feathers, etc)as the result of a predator attack might it also have created physical injuries to the pigeon, which thus the bird might have some sort of auto-immune response set off by the lost tail?? Tony Chavarria
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Joe
Guest
Mar 11, 2004
11:25 PM
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For my breeders I provided the appropriate diet when they are in the breeding, moulting or resting seasons. I make sure that they have vitamins, grit and pickstones at all times. Water is changed twice daily before feeding. If I can't change the water because I am busy I put apple cider vinegar in the water for that day. I clean the lofts once a week.
I worm before I start breeding and after breeding season is finished. I spray the birds with permethrin every 4 months for insect control.
For all the young that I breed they get no medication at all. They get the permethrin spray and thats it. I fly them out of kitboxes. Any bird that gets sick gets culled. Any bird that is allways an early lander gets culled. I find that these are the ones that are sick or listless.
I have been doing approach for 4 years and have seen that I get fewer sick each year.
We all agree that we must cull the to improve the airial performance our family of rollers. Why then shouldn't we cull to improve the health health performance of our birds?
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STARFIRE
36 posts
Mar 12, 2004
11:25 AM
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Hey Tony;
I think you are right ,that pulling the tail, sets off some autoimmune system in the pigeon.It sets off a process to heal the bird.Another thing you can try when your birds look down in the dumps is Enos Fruit salts.Man this really picks them up.1 tsp.to a gal of water.
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