Drama Side
134 posts
Apr 08, 2008
12:30 PM
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The bop got me again today thats almost a whole kit. I just started back flying on march 17th. I'm scared to see what next year is going to be like.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2332 posts
Apr 08, 2008
12:40 PM
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Hey drama, I am not asking for problems and I know my situation can change anytime, but why is it, I live in the country, surrounded by bop, and I just don't lose birds? I have not lost one to a bop since I been to Missouri.
I see them all the time. Even in California, I only lost less than 20 from 1993 to 2005. I am not bragging (after a while, you start to think there is a little more involved than simply luck, otherwise, why haven't I won the lotto). LOL
Somewhere I even have a picture of a coopers hawks sitting on my old kit box here in MO. They know where I am. Last year, I even had one fly right over the kit box and look me in the eye from about 30 feet.
Don't mean to sound like I am passing judgment, but just wondering...what gives??
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
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silver tail
112 posts
Apr 08, 2008
12:40 PM
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Drama it's cool we all go trough something in our life and this year for you it's bop don't let it get you down breed more and fly hard thats how I did it when I was down there atleast 200 babies a year I know that sounds crazy but thats how I did it and was able to fly every fly. The days of breeding 35 or 55 birds a year are long gone my red tail is out back in the tree right now and the reson I say mine is he comes home every day at the same time and stays.
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luis
766 posts
Apr 08, 2008
12:41 PM
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Keep breeding and hang in there.Hopefully it gets better for us!
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2333 posts
Apr 08, 2008
12:44 PM
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Silver Tail said:
"breed more and fly hard thats how I did it when I was down there at least 200 babies a year I know that sounds crazy but thats how I did it and was able to fly every fly"
Competition causes more losses of good rollers. What a shame...yeah, I know, I am flying a local competition this Saturday.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2008 12:44 PM
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silver tail
113 posts
Apr 08, 2008
12:45 PM
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Tony your right just the luck of the draw but where Drama and a few of the other guys live there falcon problem is not of the wild veriaty they are hand raised and trained meaning they were planted there and trained to eat PIGEONS. They are pigeon assassin's
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silver tail
114 posts
Apr 08, 2008
12:49 PM
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Tony again your right. But in a lot of cases the birds lost where not good and just help some not breed from junk.
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elopez
989 posts
Apr 08, 2008
12:58 PM
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Drama,
I was on the other line when you called Keith L. He also got it bad today, 3 falcons at one time.
I've had bad days like this too. Like Silver said, you need to breed in bunches to keep a kit going.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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elopez
990 posts
Apr 08, 2008
1:07 PM
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"Even in California, I only lost less than 20 from 1993 to 2005."
Tony, I got back into it in 2007 and have been hit really bad. I remember when I flew back in the 90's I would very rarely lose a bird to the bops. Now in 2007 I've must have lost around 100. Looks like from 2005 till now, they've must have really increased in numbers. Last year I did fly hard and lost many. This last month I have held them in more when attacked or seen them flying by, still lost 7. It may be because of where my house is located at...
I must see around 10 bops during my drive home from Inglewood to Hacienda Heights on the freeway light posts. Now if I see that many in my 35 mile drive, can you imagine how many of them are out there now?
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2334 posts
Apr 08, 2008
1:26 PM
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I hear ya, swim with the sharks, you're gonna get eaten. Is breeding so many birds to sacrifice to the sky shark a good idea? I don't know if I could do it.
But heck, to each his own.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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silver tail
116 posts
Apr 08, 2008
1:35 PM
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Tony it is said but if you don't fly them why have them they are perfomance birds not show or just look at me im a roller the only way to tell the good ones from the bad is in the sky thats the truth bottom line. I'll bet your best built,best looking birds weren't the best ones you breed. I might be wrong but in most cases thats the way it goes even bill pensoms best bird was ugly.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2335 posts
Apr 08, 2008
1:48 PM
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silver, I agree, flying is how we know what we got in a bird. But I like to still have the bird around once I know.
My best birds look pretty damn good in my opinion. But what do I know, when my younger brother described my first girl friend to my dad, he fell over, nuff said! ;-)
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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rollsoffury
20 posts
Apr 08, 2008
1:53 PM
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But if you keep feeding the bop's, They'll keep producing to larger quantities.
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Roll it
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Oldfart
587 posts
Apr 08, 2008
2:17 PM
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I test the sky with the least of the best. Deciding who is least is the hard part. I also keep a big pan and a stick if fire wood handy. My neighbors know I'm crazy so they hardly flinch, when I start beating on my pan and screaming like a banshee. It's saved a few! There are ways of flying smart. I wait until mid-afternoon hoping the sharks are fed and happy. I fly smaller numbers as I believe less is more, it allows me to evaluate individuals and is less of an attractive nusance. When the sky seems clear, the whole bunch flys, sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. They fly, it's just that simple, but I do not have to mindlessly throw them out as sacrificial boons to the predator!
JMHO, Thom
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quickspin
486 posts
Apr 08, 2008
2:33 PM
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Last year I was flying at this same time and I was not gething hit. I got hit Saturday lost a good one that could of been easy a stock bird, lock down for 3 days and I got hit again today but from a different bop. There are too many bop around here that where introduce by man in to the city that don't migrate. I'm scare to let my birds out that I know are doing good. I let my young birds out as they are only 2-3 months old. If I loose one of my older birds it's very frustrated as it has taken me a lot of work to train them. I counted my last year birds that I have left and there are 21 out of 100 birds I bred. I don't feed the BOP as I do lock down and try to be smart when I get hit. But I have to fly my birds for 2 years before I can stock them for ever. This will help me in the end to know what I'm working with. Not 1 year old wonders which I was having before. This are birds that do good when young and then are no good after the 2nd year.
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SALAS LOFT
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flo
58 posts
Apr 08, 2008
4:59 PM
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"But if you keep feeding the bop's, They'll keep producing to larger quantities.
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Roll it "
Regardless if you choose to fly them or not, they will produce. Regardless if all True roller fancier locks their kits down, the BOP will produce. There are other pigeon breeders out there who fly's there kind of pigeons and they will suffer as will. Even if 99% of all pigeon breeders decide to lock their birds down, there will always be wild pigeons. Even if all the wild pigeons are all eaten up, there will be other birds and rodents. Point is, no matter what, the BOP will always produce. It's not like they have foster BOP's where they produce double. they will produce by the numbers no matter what and no matter where you are at when it is their time to breed. As gas price rises, so will be the BOPs. It sucks...but what can you do to less the BOP? Not much...Just my opinion.
flo
www.blacked-out-loft.webs.com
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silver tail
117 posts
Apr 08, 2008
5:27 PM
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This is a good subject but Flo is right the BOP will not just sit on there wings and die they will eat something. The Falcon in it's right environment eats birds that live by eatting from the ocean. I don't know about you guys but I've never seen a pigeon fly over water an catch a fish. Remember DDT is what knocked down the population of those birds and DDT was found being dumped in the ocean or pigeons are not normally under normal surcumstances there first choice man did that.
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George R.
486 posts
Apr 08, 2008
5:48 PM
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You guys can thank all the guys that Fly all year around in So California.
If everybody locked down thier Birds between Oct. 31st and April 1st the preds would migrate.
But people fly all year around even when the preds migrate into So Cal .
its no secret that the preds are heavy in the winter in So Cal.
but people still choose to feed them I call that SELF INFLICTED.
Just my opinion
George
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WaTtS UpP
549 posts
Apr 08, 2008
5:49 PM
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whats up drama hey i just lost 3 young ones yesterday to the bop and one more on sunday.............
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Watts uppp homeboy
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Oldfart
588 posts
Apr 08, 2008
6:08 PM
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If I just wanted somthing pretty in my loft, I would ask my bride! I fly rollers! I want them to live as they should! I try to the best of my abilities to minimize the risk. They fly, or I quite!! To quote Forest Gump, "And that is all, I have to say about that!"
Thom
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silver tail
119 posts
Apr 08, 2008
6:32 PM
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Hey George and any one else who's listening their are area's in California and im sure other parts of the world were it does not matter if there's a pigeon or not under stand some of these things are just like are bird. Have you ever seen a person move and leave there birds the birds stay even if no one feeds them they go eat and come right back these preditor are like that they have been placed in boxes on the side of building feed pigeons through a hole in the top so they don't see humans but watch birds fly by there box all day and like homing a pigeon there let out and return. They have no mom to show them how to migrat they have fish n game and others homing there birds and doing there hobbie face it they fell just like we do except the have the so called law on there side as unfar as it may be thats it.
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silver tail
120 posts
Apr 08, 2008
6:34 PM
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Oldfart Im with you except I would get a few stripers for the loft if just for the look. lol ;-)
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Drama Side
135 posts
Apr 08, 2008
7:16 PM
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Its sad but our flying days in southern california is about to be over in about three years. A falcon don't eat wild pigeons out here. I could live with the cooper or the red tail. I kick my birds out when I see them. The falcon is the one that bothers me. I know some of you talk about the cooper in other states. Trust me as long as you don't have the falcon you got it made.
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silver tail
122 posts
Apr 08, 2008
7:36 PM
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Drama thats not true falcons are bad but the other are just as tuff at my place I loose more to reds then anything and I mean they get um they come down in the yard when ever the please. Every area has it's problems just look at no one is the best every year it's some one else due to area's changing it is bad in your area and will get worse befors it gets better but ever dog has it's day and your is coming just be ready when your window of opportunity open's and jump through.
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elopez
993 posts
Apr 08, 2008
7:48 PM
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Regardless if you choose to fly them or not, they will produce. Regardless if all True roller fancier locks their kits down, the BOP will produce. There are other pigeon breeders out there who fly's there kind of pigeons and they will suffer as will. Even if 99% of all pigeon breeders decide to lock their birds down, there will always be wild pigeons. Even if all the wild pigeons are all eaten up, there will be other birds and rodents. Point is, no matter what, the BOP will always produce. It's not like they have foster BOP's where they produce double. they will produce by the numbers no matter what and no matter where you are at when it is their time to breed. As gas price rises, so will be the BOPs. It sucks...but what can you do to less the BOP? Not much...Just my opinion.
flo
Well said Flo. My brother and I have locked down our birds for 3 weeks and almost every day I saw the same coopers flying by my house just waiting or with something in his talons. If they don't eat our pigeons they have a wide variety of food.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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elopez
994 posts
Apr 08, 2008
7:50 PM
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Drama,
I would trade your Falcon problem for my CooperSSSS problem any day.
When I get the falcon, he'll make a few attempts then leave. My coopers work as a team and take at numbers. Let put it this way, I have the All Pro, All Star team at my house. The coopers you have must still be playing little league...
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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elopez
995 posts
Apr 08, 2008
7:50 PM
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George,
I wish that was true, but like flo said if they are not eating our birds they have a big menu to pick from.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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Drama Side
137 posts
Apr 08, 2008
8:09 PM
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Efren and silver tail I see you guys ain't really having no problems. Now be honest with yourselfs you have a red tail,cooper, and falcon at they best who's the better hunter. Like I said I will kick out when I see a red tail or cooper. Just the other day I had a pair of red tails hit my kit. They got nothing then five mins later two coopers come once again nothing. A couple mins later the man come (falcon) gets one no problem and chase off a few. All in the same fly. Yeah I had a cooper chase a bird threw a tree. It still can't mess with the falcon Efren and silver tail.
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Scott
343 posts
Apr 08, 2008
8:50 PM
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Keep em down there, I lost one last Fall to a migrating Coop , none all Winter , and one this Spring so far.
The guys in the towns and cities seem to have the most problems by far, more natual food supply here I suppose, I might add that there are few ferals around here also.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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rollsoffury
25 posts
Apr 08, 2008
8:53 PM
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I don't know the remedy for our birds to avoid these bops, But hopefully we could come up with something soon.
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Roll it
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elopez
998 posts
Apr 08, 2008
9:22 PM
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Drama,
Like I said my coopers are top hunters. Next time you talke to Keith ask him how my coopers are. He even said that he has a bad falcon problem but he's glad he doesn't have my cooper problem. I only lost 1 bird to the red tail last year. They don't buy my kits too much as they are too busy eating Luis's birds...lol
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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chewy
82 posts
Apr 09, 2008
1:00 AM
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Hey drama...y u quitting cause u lost them to the bop's i lost nearly 150 birds last year to thieves in two months...that's like 4 times the lost u had ....bro and am still hanging this year...things turning out good bro...we all know u aint quitting cause of this lil problems...we all go through it....dont worry time's gonna be short but u can do it...
just my thought....chewy..
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Drama Side
141 posts
Apr 09, 2008
7:46 AM
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Great post chewy thanks! No I'm not going to give up that easy but it got me thinking.
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silver tail
127 posts
Apr 09, 2008
8:00 AM
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Drama I'm not saying that your problem is nothing what I am saying is every area and every person has their challenge's your now just happens to be a planted falcon but in other area's trust me i've had them all and the falcon can be a pain btu their are othere who have up to three pair of them in there area's so fell just a little lucky. you have not said anything about a goosehawk when you see a big female you will see what a killer is they hunt High an low and don't quite like Lopez said they are evil. Just hand in there thing's will get better but my best advise breed more and you may have to fly a sacrafice team just for him.
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maxspin
206 posts
Apr 09, 2008
8:15 AM
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I think that a lot depends on the terrain at your house. If you have a lot of trees the coopers have a lot of opportunity for ambush and will be a bigger problem than the falcons.
'My" falcons are not as good as many that I have read about. They only have about a 25% success rate, but they are there almost every time I fly. They will stay until they get something. If they do not get something from the first kit I can't release another one because they will just be there for the next kit. Sometimes I am not even safe if they do get one. If it is the male he will give his catch to the female, and come back for seconds. At times I will have as many as four over my kit as the parents are teaching the young to hunt.
My biggest frustration is that they mess up the kit. I end up having to cull birds because they just will not fly. They fly into the trees and sit scared. I have to get rid of these birds before they teach the whole kit this bad habit. The birds that will fly, fly scared. They do not fly in a nice slow pattern setting up for breaks. They just zoom around on one wing.
Keith Maxwell
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silver tail
131 posts
Apr 09, 2008
11:19 AM
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PR thanks for posting that info hopefully most on the list will read this and see no matter what we do by locking down these bird will eat even if the have to eat bugs and I don't know of a place that has nothing on that list that they will eat. Fellas we have a problem so you fly and take your chances or you simply back yard raise and sooner then later realy don't know what you have in the loft by stocking unproven birds sad but true. Again thanks PR for the info hope more find it helpful.
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tavo932
8 posts
Apr 09, 2008
12:21 PM
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Ralph thanks for that post alot of good info on it. and Keith also has a point I remenber back in L.A my kit boxes were about 50 ft from a tree and the cooper waited for me to release my birds and on the first bird out it would fly into the kit and half of the kit would just stay in and the other half would crash into the bushes or just take off. But like the previuos post from Ralph I now reside in Arizona and have seen many coopers 3 different falcons and maybe 10 redtails within a 7 mile radius. I have been flying for 10 months straight and have only lost one to a BOP. The reason is that in my area there is plenty of small game like doves, quails,bunnies and other things that they can eat besides my spinners. Don't get me wrong once the get a taste for pegions they will know where to find them and they will be back. Drama side you need to get a couple of fosters and breed up some more. I can understand and know it s@#*s to have good qulaity spinners and your anable to see them do thier thing. Don't give up now.
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"Our Angels Loft"
Tavo
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155
333 posts
Apr 09, 2008
1:46 PM
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GOING BACK TO THE FIRST COMMENT: LIKE A FRIEND TOLD ME NOT SO LONG AGO THIS HOBBIE IS MADE FOR THE THICK SKIN PEOPLE. IN MY SECOND YEAR OF BEING IN THIS HOBBY I'VE LEARN A LOT WHAT THIS PREDITOR MAKE'S YOU GO THROUGH, FUSTRATION, ANGER, AND BROKEN HEARTED..... AND DISCURAGED AT SOME POINT'S ALL THIS FEELING COME WITH THE HOBBY NO MATTER WHERE YOUR AT OR WHAT COUNTRY OR STATE HIS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THERE IN THIS ROLLER HOBBY BUT MAYBE I DO GO THICK SKIN CAUSE IM STILL IN IT FOR MY ENJOYMENT...YOU GAIN SOME YOU LOSE SOME ISNT THAT APART OF EVERY DAY LIFE....
EVILLOFT'S
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PR_rollers
866 posts
Apr 09, 2008
2:32 PM
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You guys are welcome. 155 says "WHAT THIS PREDITOR MAKE'S YOU GO THROUGH, FUSTRATION, ANGER, AND BROKEN HEARTED....
so true are those words that is why i taken the time to study
and learn my birds enemy and how i can get around them to protect them without breaking the law .for three days in a row i got hit one morning 8am so i go the next day 11am still got hit so i go out the next day 5 pm still got hit thank god for the first time since he taken about 18 of my youngster .the falcon which is 200 mph against my 70 mph .130 faster than mine.didn't get his target and he wouldn't give up but why he miss because the birds aren't as young as when they were when he use to take them and that don't mean a thing because the falcon is faster its because my birds zig zag and got away, on a straight line they are a gonna ,, not getting my birds is enough for me to be happy,they still are shaken up and i have to lock down for a week so they can come out and be rollers fly at a pace which they feel comfortable and roll and enjoy the sky with out of being attack by the BOP....
but i will not give up i feel times will change for the better ,first it has to hit rock bottom before going back up again for the better...but never breed birds without seeing them in the air because the BOP .In other words don't stock them if you didn't fly them.you be going backwards in your program back to where you started.. I have 25 left out of 43 from what i started and every one was bought in Oct 2007, they said breed them don't fly them .but i have a bird that rolls nice but comes out of the roll and goes somewhere else instead of back to the flock , bumps coming out the kit box now if i would had stock that bird with a fault like that, I would had never seen it but the offspring's would have carry this bad gene with them.. now i be going backwards instead of forward. ----------
Ralph....
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Edgar
185 posts
Apr 09, 2008
4:25 PM
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Hang inthere drama you know what they say only the strong survive we all lose birds the BOP thats why we have to breed more birds last year i bred 15 pairs took out 100 babys only have about eight left this year im breeding 30 pairs plannig on taking out about 200 to 250 babys see what hapens so just hang in there and good luck.edgar.
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2008 4:26 PM
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luis
776 posts
Apr 09, 2008
9:07 PM
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Another fact is that even if not taken,hurt, or lost,the ones that remain are ruined!They become so high sprung(flying for their lives) they are no longer any good for comp!
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silver tail
138 posts
Apr 09, 2008
9:10 PM
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Very good point Luis that point has been over looked.
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Santandercol
2289 posts
Apr 10, 2008
6:33 AM
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My humble opinion is you guys breeding so many are just feeding the BOP.I'm plagued with them here but only bred 60 last season and still have 38 left by holding them in after attacks and lockdown most of the winter.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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elopez
1010 posts
Apr 10, 2008
8:35 AM
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Must be nice to still have your birds Kel. I would love to only lose 22 birds all year.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
Last Edited by on Apr 10, 2008 8:36 AM
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elopez
1018 posts
Apr 10, 2008
1:11 PM
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Drama,
I said let's trade but it seems you just sent the falcon over here without taking my coopers. Got hit today by the falcon, he chased them down then the coopers came out to try to snag them after the falcon's chase. Missing one but hopefully he'll come back.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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silver tail
140 posts
Apr 10, 2008
1:33 PM
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Hey Elopez you sometime got to be carefull what U ask for the words out of our mouths is POWERFUL. Good luck I hope your bird makes it home.
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PR_rollers
887 posts
Apr 11, 2008
8:29 AM
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These month are the highest in attacks from falcon,from Jan to March and April,the juveniles are leaving their nest,,,they start breeding August -Sept,thats when attacks are very low on these early month.
now what time are good to fly well early and late afternoon are the worst time and thats bad for us we like to train the youngster in early morning before it gets too hot for them..
but the falcon is actively searching for food.and toward midday the more experience hunter should have made its kill. now you say well i will fly in the evening sun is down but the falcon comes looking for his kill again to take advantage of bird going to roost. the falcon will work to our flying time. and they work that into there hunting routine.
The peregrines suffer from canker and catch it from pigeons too .so the death rate of falcon were high at one time but now we give our birds medicine the falcon in turn feed there youngster they get the medicine and get cure..so now they are surviving .they are getting good fed pigeons that are healthy ..found a cure for canker,why would they want to go eat anything less .if I was given a choice wanna eat in Mc.Donald or Red Lobster which one will i choose ..Red lobster baby....Red Lobster..but things will get better soon
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.Walk by faith not by sight...
Ralph....
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spinner jim
282 posts
Apr 11, 2008
2:42 PM
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The current all england champion has just sold his entire stock and called it a day (crobbo)due to the bops,a sad day really,jim uk.
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Electric-man
1427 posts
Apr 11, 2008
2:46 PM
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You can't be serious! That is horrible news! Damn BOPs!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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PR_rollers
889 posts
Apr 11, 2008
5:33 PM
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That is sad Jim,,but he will be back..he will go cold turkey for a while but he would need a fix..
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Ralph....
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