George R.
152 posts
Feb 14, 2008
7:45 PM
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Is there any way to know if a donated or free Bird is a Cull ?
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Mongrel Lofts
525 posts
Feb 14, 2008
7:47 PM
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George,
Of course there is. Buy it!! LOL KGB
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jerries loft
82 posts
Feb 14, 2008
7:51 PM
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If I buy a auction bird and it its a young bird i will fly it out to see what it can do to help me in my program.
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Jerries Loft
Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2008 8:21 PM
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SpinZone
38 posts
Feb 14, 2008
8:20 PM
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Seeing is beleiving I always say, unfortunately there are still some guy's in the hobby that would donate a cull to a club lawn show and tell you how great it was in the air. This information is usually followed by man I would not try to fly it because you may loose it and I can't make it again.
I have picked up a bird before from a show just to do my part in helping the club raise money. I was pitched this line and it did'nt matter because the bird by know means was going in my loft. I did fly it or should I say atttempted to fly it, you see the bird could not even fly to the roof of the kit box with out rolling.
I remembered his pitch and thought it should not be that hard for him to make another cull! lol I will not mention this guys name but lets say I think of him everytime I get rid of a cull.
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Bill C
72 posts
Feb 14, 2008
9:47 PM
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George, great question. Use common sence when buying birds. I will say if you buy squeakers from anyone who has a good loft of birds you will have some good birds to breed. Not every bird that excels in the air will produce the same. But bad rollers will reproduce the same. If a bird is out of a good loft you could be buying the best bird that guy would breed out of 100 birds that year?
Buy birds with a name behind them. Joe Houghton, Joe Emberton, Scott Cambell, Joe Urban, Ken Billings ect. They will not sell a cull, they have a reputation for a reason. Don't buy a bird from a guy you don't know. What if they are free. Ask to see his birds fly and that is most likely what you will be getting.
You can always breed a bird and keep records and in time the offspring will tell you what you bought. That is the long way to find out. That is what KGB said!
Make some friends, most roller guys will enjoy haviing a friend over to watch birds fly. Ask around about he free birds or raffle birds. Don't take just one oppinion as sometimes guys have anomosity towards each other.
You might here this, those birds are crap from one guy and another might say, I've seen some real good rollers in his kit, he just can't put a team together because he is not paying attenion enough in his selection. He might not be paying attention in the breeding loft either? So ask questions. Once you start talking to a guy, you can tell if he is just a big talker or he really has a keen sence of what these rollers are bred for and what he thinks. Conversation reveals alot of what a guy thinks and why!...Is he just selling birds or is he dedicated to his birds and flies his birds.
I can tell you the NCRC show is for performance birds and I dought you will find any culls there.
Fund raisers for clubs need good birds to auction or they won't have people come back the next year. Right, just like the NBRC Auction. If everyone donated birds they would have 10,000 birds to auction. So use common sence and ask questoins. Auction birds should have a history with them, like they are a proven breeders, or proven in the air kit birds, or squeakers. It always helps to be very specific in a post. So I tried to give an oppinion on what I've seen in six years. Hope it helps. Bill C
Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2008 10:06 PM
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washington86
282 posts
Feb 14, 2008
9:54 PM
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I'll do what jerrie is doing too. If I was to won a young bird, I'll fly it first.
As far as I know, I don't really know if a a donate or auction bird is a cull. When I was young, all my donated and auction birds were all culls. (HOW DISAPPOINTED.
I have to actually meet the pro and ask him tons of questions before going out there and buying birds. I also get warranty from professional fancier. If my birds isn't what he described, he is happy to get me another bird that will blow me away. That's what I like about.
When I was young, I believe I bought and won a lot of CULL ROLLERS from San Diego Spinner because I still remember some familiar faces and I live in SD during that time.
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ICEMAN710
121 posts
Feb 14, 2008
10:54 PM
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Hey Washington, what are those guys names from SDS are, I Knew a handful of them when I was younger. I dont think they would donate culls at their club functions.
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Gary
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washington86
283 posts
Feb 14, 2008
11:31 PM
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I forgot their names. It;s been a long time. I didn't won or bought their birds at their club. They show up at this one Pigeon show that is taken place every month. This show not only have rollers but all kinds of pigeons. The only person I still remember is (moderated) from SD. Yea, All my birds were culls. I can't believe it.
The pigeon show fanciers there lies a lot. I'm not saying it was the SDS, but the other fanciers who don;t have rollers. They know that all my friends and I are into rollers and they would lie that their birds are roller just to make us buy it. (STUPID ME)
However, I still remember (moderated) sold me a couple of culls ($5 each) awhile back, LOL.
Funny part was that when I was young, I was asked to guard or look after (a person from SDS) birds, and at the end, he would give me a couple of his cull birds.
I think this was why I couldn't move up the pyramid with my family of birds. I was stuck with culls that I didn't know.
The first time that I've ever gotten the best birds was from Johnny Smith.
Last Edited by on Feb 18, 2008 8:44 AM
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ICEMAN710
122 posts
Feb 15, 2008
12:04 AM
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Washington, I remember your group that would frequent those shows. It was the San Diego Metro Pigeon Club. They wouldnt give you the BEST of birds because they knew you guys werent serious fanciers or know you well enough, you would just show up at the club functions...sometimes just their to ask for birds. They wanted to give you something you could work with and get used to managing pigeions in general. Then long enough in, join the club, show your seriousness and enthusiasm...theyll mentor you and give you good birds, they wouldnt bother to sell you any to get you started. Their are alot of good guys in the club. Steve Moore was my mentor with SDMPC and was with SDS at the time too. I remember them talking once stating, as long as they had some type of loft and enthusiasm it would be a good start. Remember, you guys were a group of young guys who asked for birds at every show, just came and left at times...who knew what you were going to do with them. I would feel the same way with my brids, wouldnt you? remember the majority or the members are show guys, and multi breed fanciers, they're not like Johnny Smith...hardcore comp flyer. The birds wont be of a high calibre quality as him IMO. BTW Sad to hear youve had bad experiences, but hey something lived, something learned right?
Are you and your brother going to the benefit show?
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Gary
Last Edited by on Feb 15, 2008 4:39 AM
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gabe454
246 posts
Feb 15, 2008
7:09 AM
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By flying it! now you know that the person you buy it from if it is a cull you can go back and let the person that you bought the bird from and let them know he sold you junk.
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454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
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fhtfire
1243 posts
Feb 15, 2008
7:18 AM
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Hey,
I am speaking for myself...but I agree with Bill C....most guys with good birds...donate good birds or young birds from there best pairs...why...because they have pride...and if a bird leaves there property....it is going to either be good or has the potential.
Ok...as far as I go....I donate the crappiest bird possible...just kidding....If I am sending to an auction a kit bird....it will be out of my A-team...or it will be a younger kit bird that is not flown out yet but is showing great potential..and that is what the card will say on the cage....as far as young birds or squeeks....those will usually be from my best pairs...
I think most guys with a name worth a shit....will donate good birds..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Windjammer Loft
240 posts
Feb 15, 2008
9:44 AM
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Here is a GOOD for instance of ETHICS. Like its been said earlier most well known fanciers have PRIDE...and A REPUTATION and can be TRUSTED.. Sure you can get STUNG with any type of purchase.. People have to take responsibility for own actions. Do some studing,ask questions,learn more about WHO you are dealing with. Its all a matter of common sence. First and formost DON'T be afraid to ask for help from those that you TRUST.
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Feb 15, 2008 10:10 AM
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washington86
285 posts
Feb 15, 2008
10:04 AM
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ICEMAN, you seem to remember me well enough. I was one of those young kids back then. And all those things that you said was kinda true. That San Diego Metro Club was got all of my friends and I into pigeon, not just pigeon but BIRMINGHAM ROLLERS. All my friends back then NOW still raise birds, but they have move to different states and cities. And one day, we will compete with each other.
It was hard to get started back then because we were young and the people didn't taught us much about the hobby. But it's OK
Yes, me and my brother are going to the benefit show. And what is your real name IceMan? And Iceman, were you just getting into roller back then?
Last Edited by on Feb 15, 2008 10:10 AM
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Oldfart
476 posts
Feb 15, 2008
12:01 PM
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I would give my best away before I would sell or donate or just plain give away a bird I would not keep for myself.
Thom
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Snake Doctor
207 posts
Feb 15, 2008
12:08 PM
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I haven't done anything yet, but I promise you I will not give anyone, something that costs me nothing to use an old phrase why would anyone want what isn't acceptable to me????
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"Semper Fi"
SD
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sippi
36 posts
Feb 15, 2008
4:33 PM
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When I donate a bird to an auction it will be the best I have or out of the best I have. I want people to say that they got good birds from me. As has been said it is a matter of pride. Sometimes I give the buyer the option of getting kit birds or squeaks. I have always sent two extra birds every time I send an auction. Those that donate culls will soon get a rep and cant give a bird away.
Sippi
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Velo99
1580 posts
Feb 15, 2008
5:27 PM
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Evidently some guys have a skewed perception of "help"
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
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JM420LOFT
45 posts
Feb 15, 2008
6:59 PM
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SPINZONE I pickup a bird the pedigee said 30ft good 8 months later 3 flips it was 1 1/2 year old what a waste of time and 40 bucks.
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Bill C
76 posts
Feb 16, 2008
12:13 AM
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JM, I don't necessarily consider that a cull, if that bird kits and flips fast, it is not a cull in my book but if a bird flips slow or tumbles that is a different story. Some bird don't come into the roll for 12 months or 2 years. Have you been flying this bird everyday when young? If this was a bird the guy said rolled 30 feet and then fliped instead of rolling after 8 months of you flying it on top of him flying it and you don't want it, take it back to him and tell him it didn't work out. I would expose the guys name if it were true so someone else did not buy his birds. Your point may be that the guy lied on his pedigree and you have a right to be angry if he said that was a proven bird. I have a book signed by (
Moderated) when he sent me one of his books, I had written him a note when I sent him the money for the book. Then I get a letter from (moderated) who said I am moving to Canada next month and I need to part with the last of my Dads birds would you like to buy them, they had impressive pedigrees. THey have been selling the last of those birds for 25 years now! LOL get it. (Moderated) has an article in the NBRC magazine right now ( last issue ) stating he is parting with the last of his (Moderated) pure Leroy Smith birds. Now do you think anyone has any pure Leroy Smith birds left banded from Leroy??? HMMMMM I bet you if 20 of us called and wanted 25 birds they would be shipped out the next day. I also noticed in the NBRC magazine that (Moderated) was not in Canada but had a P.O.BOX number in USA. I never asked (moderated) for birds they contacted me. In other words INVESTIGATE who you are buying from.
I would like to say that in the case of a bird not rolling early enough for most fanciers though I may stand alone on this one but I like older developing birds. I keep birds for two and three years before they roll sometimes. If you lock birds up in winter they have not got 12 months flying in them. Most only get 6 or 7 months of flying on a bird in a year and if they were late hatches they may only get to fly for four months, then then next year they are culled because they have old bands and are not doing more than flips.
We as the trainer have to take more responsability to what our birds do, rather than just say I got culls. You have to raise your own champions, they can't be bought they have to be born. Nobody is going to give or sell their best birds, that is why I say get sqeakers from a reputable breeder of good birds.
I remember reading in the NBRC magazine and its title was " ARE YOU CULLING YOUR BEST BIRDS", The article was on late develping birds being some of the best. Read Pensoms book again that Tony sells, it is not anything new here. I may have misunderstood you but again just because a bird does not roll in 8 months is not a cull.
Culls are constantly out birds, to frequent or afraid to fly in the kit cause it looses its control and will roll too much.
culls are rolldowns
Culls are birds that bump all the time going in or landing, they cull them selves, who wants a kit of 20 of them comming out and hitting the cement on your neibors patio!
Even a good roller who wont reproduce it self will live it life out in the kit box right.
I know, I know with the hawks you all want 5 or 6 month wonders. Not me, one or two is fine but I want mature birds that can handle the roll and stay with it for years that that won't fall apart like some of the early birds do when they hit two years old. I like a bird that hits 1 1/2 years old and starts to roll 20 or 30 feet and they do that. Sure you have to feed them for 2 years but the pay off is worth it. REMEBER with locking up birds it takes two years feeding to get 1 year flying into them. They will ALL roll if flown long enough. I'll shut up now. Bill C
Last Edited by on Feb 18, 2008 8:58 AM
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Santandercol
1996 posts
Feb 16, 2008
6:19 AM
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Know whoever is doing the giving.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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Velo99
1581 posts
Feb 16, 2008
6:58 AM
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Bill,
I have had a couple of birds that came in late. As to the late hatches,I pick the best ones of the group. You can watch them a lot of times and tell if they have "it" or not even without being fully flown out.
I look for that occasional flash of brilliance as an indicator of POSSIBLE future performance. I do not advocate breeding to early rolling. I think that it leads to control problems later in the life of the bird.
That being said with myself and a lot of others,space is an issue and we have to work witin the paramters set by our specific situations. I can only have three kitboxs,which in my opininon is the optimal number for my program. I only run three or four pairs on 6 pairs of fosters. In normal season I will breed 30 birds or so and be done in three months or less. In the previous seasons I was attempting to fill my kitboxes with decent enough birds,sorting thru breeders and finding the best producers.
This season will be short and sweet,without late hatches. If a bit of creativity and timing are used the late hatch symptom can be eliminated all together. Streamlining a breeding season can be the easiest and most effective weapon in the arsenal.
It`s early and I drifted,sorry.
yits
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2008 7:02 AM
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ICEMAN710
124 posts
Feb 18, 2008
8:24 AM
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Whats up Washington, My names Gary. I was a member of the SDMPC since 1989. I raised Rollers since that year,I was six years old at the time. We raised and flew the Norwood family. My father owned other show breeds through out the years on the side as well. unfortunately we had to get out of rollers in 96. In 99 if I recall we tried getting back in to rollers with the jac family. thats when I saw you guys around. I was with the club again at that time for a couple of years. I am starting back up for good now,and am also with the club rejoined it last year,good to see some familiar faces, even though i dont show my birds,Its still good to chat with everyone about birds.
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Gary
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washington86
288 posts
Feb 18, 2008
11:23 AM
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Hey Gary, so what's going on with the club right now (SDMPC)? I haven't been to that pigeon for years. The last time I went there, there wasn't that much people anymore. When I first start going there, there was a lot of people, now there seems to be less. And have you started at flying in competition?
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quickspin
363 posts
Feb 18, 2008
2:08 PM
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Who ever donates a cull will have a bad reputation to the buyer and his friends. Word goes so fast that every one will know what that person gave a way.
It's easier to give away a squeaker than a mature good bird. Some times you risk it by getting a squeaker because you don't know how it will perform, not even the owner. He could easy be giving away a champ. I always go for the squeaker because the mature bird is not good no more for the owner and I always wonder why?
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SALAS LOFT
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JM420LOFT
46 posts
Feb 18, 2008
7:21 PM
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I PICKUP A YOUNG BIRD AT THE BOB SCOTH PIGEON SHOW 06 THIS BIRD IS ONE OF MY BEST KIT BIRD TODAY. 05 NBRC E0836 SIL COCK.
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ICEMAN710
128 posts
Feb 18, 2008
10:46 PM
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Hey Washington, The clubs still going on, theyve got meetings every other month now. I missed the last meeting as I was in the eatcoast for work. The numbers are definitley low, but the club seems to be gaining a memeber each month. you wouldnt believe me if I said we had 100 or so members show up in the late 80's for the shows when it was down on orange. The hobby seems to be getting smaller and smaller, Times are changing. Remember back in the day, WESTS took over the scene, it seems to be the fantails and trumpeters now. The Junior membership isnt what it was like back them either. I havent started flying in comp yet, as ive just started back up. Id like to in a year or two.
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Gary
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washington86
296 posts
Feb 18, 2008
11:16 PM
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Yes, I remember the WESTS taking up the scene. And there was a lot of people that were younger than me too, they were like about 9-13 years old, and they knew a lot about their wests. It's because their parents had them too. WOW there must be a lot of fancier back in the 80's. I didn't even notice that. It's sad to see that people are leaving that club. Your right, last time when I was there, I saw mainly fantail, modena, and these big FAT pigeon with very long muff, and it felt lonely, quite, and mournful. My house was just up the hill of the Recreation.
I'll like to pay a visit to the SDMPC soon when I have the time, and maybe talk to some people there that have already forgotten me. LOL.
And do you know if the San Diego Spinner still go to that show, once in a while or so? And what area do you live in now. I've moved to Riverside County in 2004 and hope to fly in the comp in the future.
Last Edited by on Feb 18, 2008 11:17 PM
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ICEMAN710
130 posts
Feb 19, 2008
12:58 AM
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Gustavo, mariano, steve, and jim arent with SDPMC anymore. I hear Gustavo and his brother have a bad BOP problem in their area, wiped clean and cant fly. Steve moved out of state,and jim had to get out. Those were the SDS guys I knew in SDMPC. Their is Rob who is an associate with SDS but doesnt compete and another fellow who just fly rollers in the club. SDS broke into to groups over politics, I wont get to involved. the other group is now SCRC, id like to eventually join that club. Im still in San Diego, moved from East San Diego in 2002 to North Country.
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Gary
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2008 1:14 AM
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washington86
297 posts
Feb 19, 2008
6:23 PM
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Thanks for the news, Gary. Just you me talking sort of like we already knew each other for a long time. LOL
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ICEMAN710
134 posts
Feb 20, 2008
8:42 AM
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no problem Washington,I exactly how you feel. Ill meet you out at the benefit show thats coming up in a couple weeks.
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Gary
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kopetsa
274 posts
Feb 20, 2008
2:36 PM
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Hey, If you guys have the most amazing looking roller, that isn't the best spinner, do you cull it?
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Velo99
1585 posts
Feb 20, 2008
3:55 PM
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No brainer.
Yes,with impunity. I have a nice blue check cockbird thats not gonna make the cut. He has a really nice fast roll. Problem is 75 percent of the time he comes out fighting the roll. If I break him down he is a little better but whats the point? He has control issues. He is a cull plain and simple.
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2008 3:56 PM
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Scott
66 posts
Feb 20, 2008
6:37 PM
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I think that the biggest problem is when people are handed a bird as a gift is they don't value it.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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SpinZone
57 posts
Feb 20, 2008
7:03 PM
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Scott your right about that many guy's take it for granted because they feel no one will give them a really good bird.
Then when someone does give them a good one it is not appreciated because the person receiving the gift thinks it is just like many others.
I myself learned a valuable lesson many years ago when someone gave me a bird and told me it was a very good bird.
I really did not believe it until a few weeks after I received the bird it got out of my loft while I was
cleaning.
I released my kit and this little Red hen got in the kit and made my best kit birds at the time look like junk compared to her. After flying with my team for about ten minutes she broke kit and continued to spin over and over again as she flew away.
That was a learning experience that left a rather bad taste behind but a lesson well learned not everyone is trying to cull out on you. There are many guy's that are actually trying to help you get a good start in the hobby/sport.
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Scott
68 posts
Feb 20, 2008
7:30 PM
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Spin, any more nothing leaves the property unless I have confidence in it.
I might note that my key birds were stumbled upon(within the same family), and I was told along time ago that I would breed my best and my best producers myself.
I have found this to hold very true,which is why it is important to keep your stock loft in motion and in constant progression.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2008 7:34 PM
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