parlorfancier916
466 posts
Jan 16, 2008
6:00 PM
|
hey you guys I am confused, if both parents showed the hole when they were performers shouldn't the children show the hole? or is it the reason that the pair was not closely related at all?
----------
Nrhoua (Doua) Xiong
4581 25th ave. sacramento C.A. 95820
http://freewebs.com/parlorrollers
|
RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1011 posts
Jan 16, 2008
6:02 PM
|
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????????????
----------
RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
|
Mount Airy Lofts
383 posts
Jan 16, 2008
6:17 PM
|
If only it was that simple!!
Thor
|
Donny James
268 posts
Jan 16, 2008
9:01 PM
|
i have to agree with thor....................donny james
|
Ontarioflyer
41 posts
Jan 17, 2008
6:41 AM
|
Luis good post.
Terry S
|
sundance
384 posts
Jan 17, 2008
9:31 AM
|
I doubt theres ever been a champion that didnt produce some culls, just like any other bird. A champion will probably just produce a lesser percentage of them.
----------
Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
|
DeepSpinLofts
233 posts
Jan 17, 2008
1:15 PM
|
You raised a very good topic Doua.
Trying to get that sweet donut hole in the role can be quite difficult at times. First of all it's all in the DNA. With all the different roller families out there [DNA strains; Pensoms, Hilton's 514, Jaconettes Black Rain, Fireballs], and the vast diversity of bio-genetic traits & tendacies regarding these acrobatic birds of extraordinary athleticism.... it will be very hard to get donut holes frequently from your breeders.
=====> After all, DNA is diametrically composed of a mere 4 sub-units while protein molecules are composed of 20, and strands of DNA molecules are linear in comparison to proteins which range from linear to multiplicable molecular formations.
DNA is short for Deoxyribo-Nucleic Acid. DNA is a double-stranded helical molecule found in the cells of all organisms. DNA contains the biological, genetic instructions to build an organism... which also controls the day-to-day function of all cells. These instructions are passed down from parent to offspring via the DNA inherited from previous generations.
A gene is an instruction containing section of the long, double-stranded helical molecule of DNA which contains specific instructions for some specific function such as making a protein. Ro-genes are a special type of genetic protein matter which causes certain types of pigeons to tumble or roll in flight.... or in the case of parlors on the ground.
Hmm.... interesting isn't it.
Fundamentally, we all wish to breed nothing but champion spinners displaying donut holes in the air, but pigeons have so many sets of chromosomes that it would be very hard to ever duplicate the same roller pigeon twice.... especially one showing a donut hole similar to that of its parents.
Why is that you ask?
For the record: Humans have 64 chromosomes and a pigeon no less then 120, probably twice what humans have and that is why you can inbreed certain birds in order to build a solid family of performing roller pigeons with proper rolling style.
...however
You can have 3 great spinning hens in which all of them display the donut hole with the same Sire & Dam. From a microscientific viewpoint.... none of these hens would be exactly [100%] the same biogenetically. My observations leads me to believe that a specific biogenetic DNA molecule in rolling pigeons may produce the donut hole inside of the roll, whereas a different gene type might produce on occasion the deep fast ball roll.
Keep in mind that all 3 hens will have slightly different characteristics that you won't know about... that is until you try them in stock on various cocks and fly out their offspring in order to evaluate various performance levels in the air.
NOTE: After flying out the young produced from these 3 hens you'll more than likely know through close observations.... say around 2 years or so; just which hen is the one possessing those key genetic traits [Nucleotides of Roller Pigeon DNA] that can produce performing rolling pigeons which meet the quality performance standards you seek.
Let me add that after doing some in-depth research, I strongly feel that matching body type to body type (along with specific feather patterns... example; Check+Grizzle or Dun+Badge) can be one method of linking similar bio-genetic traits & ro-genes together in order to acheive your performance goals.
Take care....
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Jan 17, 2008 3:49 PM
|
Bill C
58 posts
Jan 17, 2008
1:46 PM
|
You have to remember that you want to raise 8 birds from this pair in one year and evaluate the 8 and not just two birds. A click pair will produce good rollers in a high percentage say 65 or 70% but most get two or three good birds out of 8.
I don't have proof of this but I will tell what I suspect in roller breeding. If you have two families and cross them you get a good chance of reproducing good offspring but it might be pair that just don't mix. If you get one bird Jaconette and another bird from a someone else who started with jaconette birds they might be a good pair even when crossing families.
Either way if the birds are related or not related you have to raise a few each year and keep records and mix your pairs and eventually you will see on paper that one pair does better than different pair.
Heres the no proof thing. I have suspicion that sometimes when we pair some birds, especially with crosses we get some hybrid vigor in our birds that make some real good quality rollers, but they don't reproduce as good as their parrents. Which is why most want an inbred family. But I think that some of these new yearlings that didn't do as well as their parrents might do better if you bred them togehter say half sister and brother pairs. I am saying that basically I think some of the good spinners will skip a generation. The children may not roll deep and roll short or less and the grand children will roll deeper and the qualtiy will come out later down the line. But you have to keep breeding only the best they raise, even if a bird is kind of stiff but rolls good with qualtiy and only rolls 5 feet, that can be a bird that might throw the deep 30 foot rollers. Just don't breed a tumbler or cull just because you want to see the third generation.
Most of us cull right away too harsh if the birds don't come out as good rollers. I think this has alot to why it is so hard to reproduce good birds. We look at the pairs to get good rollers when we need to look at not only the first generation but the second and third.
It is a theory of mine that good traits might be skipping a generation and we never get that far in most cases.
SO to sum it all up. I am saying a good pair ( guessing that you have a good pair of which both rolled excellent in all things we look for in breeders) which both cock and hen were exceptable for breeding might be a pair that is skipping the first generation as good rollers but their off spring might be the ones to start producing good birds, but we split them up before we get that far.
I don't know if you get my drift but it is just something that would make a good experiment to work with. Bill C
Last Edited by on Jan 17, 2008 1:58 PM
|
lil_jess
67 posts
Jan 17, 2008
3:39 PM
|
WORDS DeepSPin & Bill C...
----------
Home of the Admiration of Flying Performing Pigeon
|
