MCCORMICKLOFTS
1007 posts
Jan 02, 2007
11:39 AM
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Heyyou, you might as well save the posting about it. It is just guys who are bored with nothing to do except to moan, complain, and become defiantly intoxicated about something that is just a "belief". Some people wrap themselves so tightly around what they believe is a novel concept that they soon find themselves in a confusing vacuum they can't get out of and can only just keep on keepin' on down that same road that got them to this point in the first place. I get a good laugh out of the guys who come here with an internet sheild and armed with a keyboard and mouse and with the mighty power of passionate fire and scornful resolution defy anyone who challenges their belief in pure blood and history. The funny thing is, aren't we supposed to be talking about roller performance? Imagine the level we would be at today if all of the desires and efforts were put into the performance of the bird instead of defending our chosen idiological whims.
Brian.
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knaylor
419 posts
Jan 02, 2007
12:13 PM
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I disagree Brian, its just about telling the truth. Thats it!!
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W@yne
156 posts
Jan 02, 2007
12:26 PM
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It would not happen if some people would stop posting items ref color.
regards
W@yne uk
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ROLLERMAN
78 posts
Jan 02, 2007
1:24 PM
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Wayne
Did any one ever say that this forum was just for those that fly competitions, If so id like to hear it from the forum owner, My self i injoy reading all of what going on in the roller world, not just the 10% who fly competitions. Thats right i want to here from the other 90% too
check whos who to see how i feel about my birds but the other guy i couldnt care less what he keeps in his loft
al
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Ballrollers
561 posts
Jan 02, 2007
6:51 PM
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I like that, Brian...well said..
YITS,
Cliff
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Bird
9 posts
Jan 02, 2007
7:45 PM
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Mccormick
The fact that I know nothing about mutates, and I can't actually tell you what was crossed on the Roller to produce those whatever they are. I can live with that. I can tell those two BIRDS, not ROLLERS, were not produced off two pure BIRMINGHAM ROLLERS!!!! Just because you say something, and you say it well enough,that some people,(UNINFORMED PEOPLE) might believe your garbage. Anyone with half a brain can look at cross bred rare colored bird, (NOT ROLLER) and know right away something funny's going on. I'm sorry it botheres you when true Roller Breeders take a stand against anyone who crosses other breeds into the Roller, that took so many years to produce the Aerial Quality we enjoy today. One thing bothers me about you, and other color breeders. Anyone who knows as much as you do about Genetics, colors, mutates, might lean in that direction. Why not cross a little of this, a little of that, and see what we come up with. Personally, I'll take Velocity, Style, and depth over Genetics, mutates,and rare colors. That's just me.
Bird
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nicksiders
1150 posts
Jan 02, 2007
10:01 PM
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Bird,
Are you a resurrected Cornell Norwood? Give us atleast a first name, man.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1011 posts
Jan 02, 2007
10:20 PM
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Birdbrain, so what if they weren't produced off of two Birmingham Rollers. Big whoop! If they roll right, that is all that matters for some folks.
Garbage? LOL...okay sport.
It doesn't bother me when people speak out against crossing other breeds on rollers. In fact none of this bothers me as much as it seems to really bother you. I get a kick out of it really. Sometimes I can't help but laugh out loud when I read some of the hard line heritage stuff on here. It really is funny when you have an open mind and realize there are some people so intensely caught up in this little, narrow groove that they don't take the time to just enjoy what rollers do. It sounds more like some people are more interested in breed purity than the performance of them. I used to think, man, these guys are just a bunch of bonafide tailholes. But then after a few years of the same old posts saying the same old things back and forth between sides, I realized I actually feel sorry for some of them. I couldn't imagine going through life living so sheltered under the roof of an isolated cause. But hey, to each their own. You won't catch me busting some guys chops for what he chooses to breed and fly and I could care less about who did what for rollers way back when. Personally all I care about is flying as good of competition kits as I possibly can while leaving the blood puritan (absolutely non-productive) stuff to the self-righteous.
I'm sure you are a good man Birdbrain and I suspect probably a pretty good roller man too. The world is a big place and there is room for a lot choices and avenues a person can take in their lives regardless if you or I agree with that choice or not. My opinion should have ZERO bearing on what you choose to do with your birds, and yours should have the same effect on my decisions.
And just so that we are on the same page since once again you fail to read what is posted, I don't encourage the crossing of rollers. I encourage people to get involved, fly their birds, learn from their birds and others who have experience with breeding, flying and training competitive kits of rollers. It is from encouragements like those that people grow in the hobby and challenge themselves to learn how to become better breeders and flyers of rollers. Ranting about blood purity and history does none of the above.
Happy New Year to ya sport.
Brian <---this is what respectable people do when they finish writing a post.
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2007 6:17 PM
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Bird
10 posts
Jan 03, 2007
11:45 PM
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Mccormick
You probably won't believr me,but my nane is Dick Bird, That's where the bird name comes from. I live in Wilmington Ca. I was thinking about getting back into Rollers, But I think I'll pass. I got out of Rollers about 15 years ago, I couldn't deal with the DUAL-PURPOSE B.S. Now you have to deal with individuals who see now problem with cross breeding. Your, WELL AS LONG AS IT ROLLS remindes me of the DUAL PURPOSE, WELL AS LONG THEY PERFORM, They considered performance as a few flips. There's now way to justify cross breeding. What do you think would happen if we crossed a bassett hound with a gray hound? WELL AS LONG AS THEY CAN RUN. How about a Jackass crossed on a Quarter hourse. Can you even come up with any established breed of anything where cross breeding has bettered their performance, be it horses, dog's, Sheep, Pigeons, ect. I think everyone would like to know. I know I would.
Bird
Turtles, ect.
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nicksiders
1168 posts
Jan 04, 2007
2:33 AM
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Wait a minute! I think I know you. We met at a meeting possibly. I was a an account executive for a freight company and I miss handled your name. Do ya live or work in the Sacramento area?
Was that you or is there another Dick Bird living/working in Sacramento area?
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jan 04, 2007 2:34 AM
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nicksiders
1169 posts
Jan 04, 2007
2:37 AM
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Dick,
I encourage you to get back into rollers.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Velo99
822 posts
Jan 04, 2007
4:58 AM
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Cliff,
I love you man! lol
Bird,
We just love to bust each others chops bro. I guarantee you if something happened to Cliffs birds,Scott would be the first to help him out in any way he could.You know how brothers fight and cajole one another. Welcome to the forum.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
Last Edited by on Jan 04, 2007 5:01 AM
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Ballrollers
569 posts
Jan 04, 2007
8:22 AM
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Aw shucks, Kenny...(blush)...I love you guys, too! And I would help any of you out, in any way that I could. We all want to think that we're right...we're all fighting a battle of some kind.....like Scott says....they're only friggin' pigeons!
YITS,
Cliff
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1028 posts
Jan 04, 2007
10:57 AM
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"You probably won't believr me,but my nane is Dick Bird, That's where the bird name comes from. I live in Wilmington Ca."
What took you so long? See, that was easy..lol.
"I was thinking about getting back into Rollers, But I think I'll pass."
Well if you think you will pass on getting back into roller you either weren't an avid fancier in the first place, or have a sponge for a spine since a few contextual opinions seem to have the power to turn you off from an idea. It's the internet for gawd sake, turn it off already and go raise some rollers.
"I got out of Rollers about 15 years ago, I couldn't deal with the DUAL-PURPOSE B.S."
Do you always let the opinions and decisions of others dictate what you do in life? That must really suck.
"Now you have to deal with individuals who see now problem with cross breeding."
Show me one post in this thread or any other thread on this web site where any individual said they are cross breeding their rollers (excluding parlorfancier and his parlor/roller crosses). Name One.
"Your, WELL AS LONG AS IT ROLLS remindes me of the DUAL PURPOSE, WELL AS LONG THEY PERFORM, They considered performance as a few flips."
Dicky old boy, why don't you get off your sheltered tail and come on out and I'll show you what real performance is all about. If you think I am full of crap, ask anyone on this web site who has been to my house what they saw. Flips?...LOL. Man you really, really, really need to get out more.
"There's now way to justify cross breeding. What do you think would happen if we crossed a bassett hound with a gray hound? WELL AS LONG AS THEY CAN RUN."
I'm sure that has happened before. Personally I don't own either breed of dog so it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. My Red Healer is 1/4 Aussie Shepard. Do you think I lose sleep at night knowing that?...LOL.
"How about a Jackass crossed on a Quarter hourse?"
Except for the extreme rarity(1 in 10,000), jackasses can't breed, therefore this cross would pretty much never happen. However, the Jackass IS the product of a cross (horse x donkey). My father was one of the most successful guys breeding and showing Appaloosas in halter classes. Basically that is a structure class. It was common then as it is common now to cross quarter horses with the appys to set a better muscle and balance.
"Can you even come up with any established breed of anything where cross breeding has bettered their performance, be it horses, dog's, Sheep, Pigeons, ect. I think everyone would like to know. I know I would."
Then start researching if you really want to know. You can start with the horse cross I mentioned above which was an improvement. All dogs were the result of crossing established breeds at some point. Can't say much about sheep, wouldn't have a clue and wouldn't care either. Pigeons...see Luis' text about the Cuban Thief Pouter for starters.
Dick, I live about 45 minutes from you. You are welcome to come to mi casa and see what I my minimum standard is for performance. If afterwards all you care about is what blood flows through their veins....then you are a pitful pedigree breeder which is the very worst thing that can infect the roller hobby.
Brian.
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2007 6:19 PM
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birdman
289 posts
Jan 04, 2007
12:09 PM
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Bird, are you or anyone else familiar with the history of the Morgan horse?
I think that the original Morgan would be a good example of what a good stud is capable of when crossbred.
At least, I think it was the Morgan...lol
Brian, you have a horse background? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1030 posts
Jan 04, 2007
12:48 PM
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Russ, my very limited experience with horses is just from what I learned from my father while growing up. His fortay was Appaloosas and Quarter horses. One of my favorite stories of his was the telling of the discovery of the Appaloosa horse by Lewis and Clark when they encountered the Nez Perce indian nation who developed their own breed of horses from early spanish horses and were known for their ability to breed outstanding horses which most were multi-colored with spots.
Here is a link to the info on the Morgan, apparently a breed which started with one horse and eventually became the combination of several breeds of horses, and vice-versa.
http://www.kyhorsepark.com/imh/bw/morgan.html
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Jimbo113
1 post
Jan 04, 2007
10:25 PM
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Brian,
A jackass is a male donkey and a female donkey is a jennet.
It is the mule that you meant was generally sterile. The mule is a cross made from a jackass (donkey) and a mare (horse). Giddyup. hehe
Jimbo
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1034 posts
Jan 04, 2007
10:43 PM
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Thanks for the correction Jim. Brainfade on my part.
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Jimbo113
2 posts
Jan 04, 2007
10:50 PM
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No problem amigo. Just happy to help. I knew what you were saying. I was just wanting my very first post here to be something I knew I was right about. lol
Jimbo
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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Ballrollers
571 posts
Jan 05, 2007
5:42 AM
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Welcome aboard, Jimbo. Don you armour and go to work!! LOL!
YITS,
Cliff
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nicksiders
1177 posts
Jan 05, 2007
6:44 AM
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Welcome Jimbo. None of the rest of us ever worry about being right.....(LOL)
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Snicker Rollers
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smokey
105 posts
Jan 05, 2007
7:42 AM
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welcome jimbo. the only time i,m right is when my wife says so . that hasent happend yet smokey
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Huey
33 posts
Jan 05, 2007
10:17 AM
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I made a trail ride in October. All rode gaited horses, some were hroses that single foot. George Foreman and his group rode crossbred horses. They won all the races. A man out of Houston had the fastest single footing horse it was out of Falcon Rowdy who was twice World champion speed racking horse and a Standardbred mare. A cross breed.
Far as I know the Quarter horse books are still open. Most Quality Quarter horses are packing lots of Throughbred blood. Especially the Running Quarters.
There is no quality breed of anything that wasn't built by cross breeding. Lots of horse breeds carry Arabian blood.
I like Colors. I believe they can be mixed in and bird still be bred for performance.
I am working on a horse that suits me. It will carry Andalusian, Paso Fino, Standardbred, Quarter horse, and Virgina Single footer(Falcon Rowdy line). I know what it looks like, rides like, and its Brio. It just ant here yet. NO pure breed can supply it. I actually don't care about its color. I do like colorful pigeons.
Some of ya'll sugested I read 'True Spinning Rollers II'. I did. Kowalski said "When more fanciers understand how relatively simple it is to produce birds of any chosen color or pattern, we will see more outstanding performers in exotic colors."
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Jimbo113
3 posts
Jan 05, 2007
11:15 AM
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Thank Y'all for the warm welcome. Just what I expected. For the record: I don't figure on being "right" all the time, just saw the chance to know I was on that one. Good way to start off though I thought. hehe
I am Jim Williams
Abilene / Ovalo, Texas
50 years old last year and have had rollers for the last 40 plus years with very few exceptions. BAD divorce being the cause of my last period without rollers.
Presently flying a hawk chewed up 12 bird kit left from my first breeding season back in rollers. My cock birds are from Rick Mee and the hens are Ken Easley's family by way of Rex Haas and Don Sutton. Looking forward to a real good 2007 and plan to enter my first competetions this year, good lord willing.
Color versus performance: Performance is what it is about for me. If they have what it takes I don't give a crap what color they are. I make no attempt to tie my birds to Bill Pensom or any of them famous old timers, Neither do I claim they are as pure as the day they came across the Big Pond from Birmingham, England. Point being: If it will not spin correctly and kit correctly it won't eat my feed for long. Having just recently gotten back into rollers, I am not lucky enough to have seen even one of my breeders in the air. Not ideal, I know. But I am putting faith in the guys that bred them and intend to prove out their worth or lack thereof in the breeding loft. I know Y'all would wish me luck in that.
I have gotten way too long winded here, sorry.
Looking forward to posting again and learning what I can here. Opinions do vary, don't they? haha
Jimbo
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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Steve_uk
30 posts
Jan 05, 2007
11:57 AM
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Will it ever end lmao!!!!
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Jimbo113
4 posts
Jan 05, 2007
2:51 PM
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Steve,
Thanks for that insightful and educating input... lmao2
Jimbo
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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Velo99
831 posts
Jan 05, 2007
5:18 PM
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Hey Jim ,
Welcome pard,
Kenny from Amarillo
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Rick Mee
25 posts
Jan 06, 2007
8:05 PM
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The reduced gene, which makes laced rollers was first discovered within rollers. This is well documented and was tested by the late geneticist Joe Quinn.
Roger Baker's birds were on the hot side to begin with, most of the laced birds within his family were no different. JoeBob gave me a laced hen probably 15 years ago when we lived just down the street from each other in Fayetteville, NC. This hen had phenominal speed and depth, her flaw was low frequency. Most of the blue laced birds were just the opposite, too frequent and dangerous, but when you got a good un, it was a good un!
Turner's birds were not all color project birds, which is how some guys like to refer to him as. I once asked James how many actual color birds he raised each year, he said he raised around 40 color project birds, and around 60 strictly performance. Having said that, some of the performance birds were just as good or better than the strictly performance bred birds. Many a time I saw Indigos that were speed and style wise better than anything anyone on this thread posesses, same goes for Andalusian which of course is just Indigo + spread factor (black).
JoeBob can trace his birds back to just a few he received manily from Turner, and a few from Don Greene. Both of these guys got their original birds from Don Simpson, therefore the Turner/Greene/Simpson tie in.
The SC birds, often called Thompsons due to their heritage going back to the late Lloyd Thompson of BC (Monty's Mentor who often called him Sonny Boy much to Monty's dislike LOL) had kiting problems. I went to nearly every fly the Backspin club had from 91-95 and attribute the poor kiting to their rules. They only required 8 out of 11 birds to kit, so often times there would be a few birds out of the kit. Seldom would you see big breaks from these 11 bird kits, however the speed and style is unparallyed (sp). JoeBob had many rolldowns in the biginning, however has got it under control by crossing a few other families in, also improving kiting and kit chemistry.
Brian M, good posts as usual!
Jimbo, good to see you posting bro!
Rick
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motherlodelofts
1279 posts
Jan 06, 2007
8:33 PM
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"Many a time I saw Indigos that were speed and style wise better than anything anyone on this thread posesses"
Thats quite a blanket statement that you made there Rick ! , now tell us how those Toy Stencels and Pencels turn to whisps of smoke , you know that you aint getting off that easy with a statement like that LOL
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2007 9:39 PM
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MILO
98 posts
Jan 06, 2007
9:03 PM
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Welcome back Rick.
I have to agree with Scott on this one. That is a huge claim.
c
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Jimbo113
5 posts
Jan 06, 2007
9:33 PM
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Howdy Kenny, I gotta come see you and your birds up there by the North Pole someday. I was at Lubbock last weekend and about froze to death. That barbed wire fence between you and the Nort Pole must have blown down. The wind was howling and too cold out for me, even with the extra layer of insulation I carry around. haha
Rick, Good to see you here too. Thanks for the welcome (you and Kenny both). You still planning to go see Joe Joyner soon? Be sure you and Rex let me know when and I will drive over too. Joe is a super nice feller.
I just finished 8 new breeding boxes this afternoon. Gotta start on a new double kit box next. I plan on filling both side with hawk feed, I mean youngsters this year. hehe
Adios for now Y'all.
Jimbo
Ovalo, Texas
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"We Don't Rent Pigs"
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Electric-man
113 posts
Jan 06, 2007
9:53 PM
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Jimbo, I like your attitude! Hang on to it!
Good post Brian!
Fly what you enjoy, and enjoy what you fly!
Bird Dick, Theres a place for you here too, just need to relax a little!
Roll on, my brothers!
Val
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2007 9:59 PM
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