madlog
1 post
Sep 09, 2006
7:06 AM
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I was given a pair of red rollers from a local pigeon breeder. My original plan was to have a couple of pets for my 9 year old son to enjoy and watch fly. How well they rolled didn't matter to me until I started reading more about the hobby. So my problem is this, I have a house for them, with no dock, just two screen windows, so I am going to ad on a good sized walk out for them but I am worried about the floor. Its just a solid floor and I wondered if I should put down something to absorb droppings like litter or sand or nothing? I have lots more questions but I'll wait and take one thing at a time. Thanks all for reading.
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C.J.
591 posts
Sep 09, 2006
10:23 AM
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If your birds are healthy their shouldn't be too much moisture. I just let the dropping fall where they may and then clean the pen floor once a week. You also only have two birds their shouldn't be a need for absorbtion.
C.J.
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Double D
273 posts
Sep 09, 2006
11:16 AM
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I like the cedar shavings you can buy in big bales. It makes my loft smell good and I understand bugs, mites, etc., don't like cedar so it repells them. I also live in a dry heat climate and so when the droppings mix with the cedar shavings, they dry quickly and the mixture of the two seems to make for a good floor base. When I change the shavings, it's easy to clean them up with a snow shovel and broom and then I simply spread a new bale out on the floor.
The only draw-back is that it tends to fly around a bit when the birds fly inside the loft. I built up about a 12 inch wall of plexiglass around the bottom of my cock and hen cages, (my breeders are in the 8-compartment breeding cages), to help keep the cedar inside the cages and not all over the loft. This helps a bunch but doesn't completely solve the problem so I sweep up the shavings that get outside the cages on a weekly basis. Their flying seems to stack up the shavings in the corner of the cages also so occasionally I have to rake it back towards the center of the cages.
All things considered, I like it and haven't really found anything else I prefer.
The pellets might be better at not flying around.
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
Last Edited by Double D on Sep 09, 2006 11:16 AM
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madlog
2 posts
Sep 09, 2006
2:25 PM
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thank you for the ideas everyone, I live in Illinois were there is a fair amount of humidity so I am leaning towards not using anything and seeing how that works. My next question is, do I need to separate the pair? Because its going to be a while before I have another loft set up. These are a couple of years old so they may start nesting but I thought that I have only had them for five days now, maybe they wouldn't be comfortable enough to nest yet.
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Sam
14 posts
Sep 10, 2006
6:29 AM
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Hello Madlog
If you go to the NBRC site.......
http://nbrconline.com/
Scroll down to "members Directory", click on it & look under Illinois you may find a some roller men close to you !
Sam
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Heyyou
47 posts
Sep 10, 2006
1:42 PM
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I also use the pellets, the kind for stables and barns are less money that the wood stove kind. They absorb the moisture, keep the amonia down and are great for the garden when I clean the kits and brood lofts. They also have a slight deodorizing factor and don't fly around when the birds do.
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Fr.mike
174 posts
Sep 10, 2006
2:12 PM
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I have used the wood pellets(the kind for animal bedding) but people use them in their pellet stoves and so the price went way up. I switched to plain cat litter(no sent or other stuff added)I get It at wallmart at alittle over 2 bucks a bag.It takes about 15 bags to do my loft.I like it better than th pellets-the last batch has lasted all summer. here in Pa. the summers are very humid but my loft has stayed dry as a bone. I use a big plastic scoop that I covered with 1/2x1/2 wire and sift it out about every two or three weeks.--it takes all the crap feathers etc. out.I just did it the other day and it looks like I just put it down.--(be sure you use a dust mask if you sift) It is only dusty when you sift.I do put loft white and seven dust down before the cat litter. No smell no scraping every day dry floor it works great for me.
Fr.Mike
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J_Star
587 posts
Sep 11, 2006
5:05 AM
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I used to use the cat litter stuff but it gets very dusty whether I am sifting or not. It was good but could not take the excessive dust. I changed to the wood pellets and it is made for cat litter. It is working very well but a bit pricy. I am thinking about using play sand next time. Have anybody used sand and what is your comments about it. I heard that sand is not a very good absorber. What else can you tell me about sand for the loft floor. Thanks.
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Sep 11, 2006 5:06 AM
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bman
55 posts
Sep 11, 2006
5:33 AM
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Jay,
I have used sand before,for me it seemed to hold the dampness to much.
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Ron
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Shaun
373 posts
Sep 11, 2006
6:06 AM
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Hi, Jay. Sand was the first floor covering I used 18 months ago. As a total novice, I had to experiment and sand certainly has its advocates. I just blindly followed the advice, lived with it a few months, then made up my own mind. It was useless.
The biggest argument in its favour is that it doesn't blow about. This is true. However, that's also it's greatest weakness - it's essentially powdered rock, so it absorbs nothing. I started to use it in the month of April which, in England, starts off damp each morning. If I were to grasp a handful of the sand at that point, it would be cold and damp. As the day wore on, the top layer would often dry out, but the underneath would stay damp.
If the drinker spilled into the sand, I would have to shuffle much of the sand around, so as not to have a damp patch which would struggle to dry.
If I were lucky and had a dry period, all would seem well... until, that is, it came to cleaning the sand floor. I used a garden sieve; the crap would stay in the top, whilst the finer sand fell back through to the floor. However, this made my arms ache, as sand is heavy - moreso when damp.
Weight is a general disadvantage with sand; you have to lug it into the back of your car, then you have to carry it from car to loft. When you're finished with the sand, because it's so full of powdered pigeon crap, you have to dispose of it. I would imagine you could end up with quite a pile over the years, as it doesn't break down like other coverings.
Oh, and let's not forget the inherent risk of pigeon fancier's lung. I used to lean over this big garden sieve, arms aching with all the shaking, watching sand fall through, with crap staying on top, ready to toss out. But, all that shaking meant dust galore. Not good.
When I gave up on sand, I'd just read Kowalski's book and was interested in his thoughts on floor coverings. He said he'd tried everything and that he had a particular method which he'd experimented with and had decided was the best. He rightly mentioned the downside to all the usual floor coverings, but reckoned he had the answer.
I tried this method, which went as follows: You start with sawdust. Now, normally, this flies everywhere and though very absorbent, it's otherwise a pain. Kowalski's answer was to first soak the floor. Next, add sawdust which soaks up the wet floor. This then forms a settled but absorbent base. From time to time, you simply rake off the top layer and replace it.
I tried this and it was as useless as sand. Certainly, the top layer looked fine, but ever time I peeled it off, the underneath had never propertly dried out, since wetting it to form the main substrate. Worse, the wooden floor right at the bottom, was damp. I could only conclude that Kowalski had drawn his conclusions from a suitably warm and dry environment. This appears to be the key: don't blindly follow anyone's ideas, unless their climate is at least something like your own.
I now use nothing but woodshavings. They're a pain in the arse, because they blow everywhere. However, shavings tend to blow around the perimeter of the loft beneath the perches, where most of the droppings fall, so in the end they work out right. It does mean that big expanses of floor have no covering, as nothing will stay in place. This is the bit I have to scrape periodically.
That reminds me, I must get a face mask...
Shaun
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Huey
23 posts
Sep 11, 2006
8:18 AM
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My breeding cages and kit boxes all have 1" by 1 1/2" welded wire floors. Everything eventually falls thru to the ground. Laying hens run free in the yard and usually keep things scratch around underneath.
I don't know if this is good are bad. I live in East Texas and don't have much cold weather. Lots of hot weather and was concerned with air flow in the summer.
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J_Star
591 posts
Sep 11, 2006
8:35 AM
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Huey, do you a problem with mice or rats? That is the primary reason why I didn't build my loft floor that way.
Jay
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Huey
24 posts
Sep 11, 2006
2:50 PM
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No problem with mice or rats so far. I only had pigeons since April.
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Heyyou
48 posts
Sep 11, 2006
6:56 PM
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Most feed stores carry the pellets for bedding, they are not quite as dense as the wood stove pellets although they can be burned. My feed store sells them for almost a $1 a bag cheaper and they work great and last in a kit loft about 3 months and it only takes two large coffee cans to replace after cleaning.
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Huey
25 posts
Sep 12, 2006
8:51 AM
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I erred on wire size; my floors are ½ inch by 1 inch.
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661roller
23 posts
Sep 12, 2006
9:19 AM
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I've seen mice go through 1/2" X 1/2". Their eyes bugged out but they made it through!
J.W.
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