|
The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
percentages %%%%%
percentages %%%%%
Page:
1
George Ruiz
87 posts
Feb 09, 2006
10:58 AM
|
I was wondering if anyone can tell me how many birds a person would have to breed every year to get a solid kit of performers if they were breeding from birds that
have colors or traits like Andalusian ,White Bars ,Milky, Indigo,
Toy Stencil,Creams,Crested,or Feather Footed,etc.
Has anyone ever seen a whole kit of solid performers consisting only of these different colored ,crested feather foot, birds ?
And please do not think I am putting these birds or thier keepers down in any way I am just courious.
Thanks George
Last Edited by George Ruiz on Feb 09, 2006 11:14 AM
|
Ballrollers
271 posts
Feb 09, 2006
11:39 AM
|
George, Like everyone, it takes as long as it takes. As a "National Average", the most common number I hear is for every ten birds raised, ONE will be good enough to qualify for the A-kit. Some of these guys who have been breeding and flying this family of rollers for several years have their producers identified and get double or triple that, or more. If you start with a family of proven performance rollers, as I did, the odds of producing a higher percentage of good birds are, obviously, in your favor. My '05 A-kit being preped for the World Cup consists of 11 andalusians, three indigo, and one qualmond. The other five birds are nestmates or siblings of these, out of the same birds, but in black, selfs, badges and whiteflights with one blue check wf and one blue chck self out of an andalusian pair. I fly three kits of 20, in different stages of development, out of 100 birds that I raised in '05 out of 10 pair. Only a few Andalusians and Indigos remain in the B and C kits. Most have made it to the A-kit. The others were given to friends in the sport or lost to hawks. I have culled about a a dozen birds under 20 ft. or stiffs so far, and I raised two rolldowns; a black self and a T-check. I had a 98% hatching rate and a 99% weaning rate of those hatched. That seems to be pretty much in line with what I see with the guys in my club that fly Jacs or Kumros, etc. (Actually, I think my percentages are better; and my depth and quality is better, but don't tell them I said that! LOL!)
The real problem in answering your question, is in defining what you mean by a rare-colored bird. It sounds simple enough, but if you read any of the discussion about the wager between Scott and I you have a better understanding of the problem. Andys and Indigos are quite common in many families, but Indigo can often go unidentified. An ash red indigo or a recessive red indigo may not be detectable until mated with a blue-based bird that shows the indigo. The factor is present; it is there before your very eyes, but you cannot see red on red. Does that qualify as a color bird in your way of thinking, George? Just curious.
Likewise, some men think that white bars are the only expression of Dominant Opal. However, sometimes, the expression is often a pale pink that may be mistaken for common lavenders. So again, if it is Dominant Opal, but looks like a common color, is that still a color bird to you? Same with reduced birds. A reduced recessive red looks yellow; like a dilute. So would that qualify as a rare-color?
Toy Stencil-a very complicated gene that rivals the genetics of the roll in complexity. I don't own any and I've never seen one fly in competition. There may be some out there in comp kits, but not many in my area.
Milky-I have seen a few, but don't own any. One looked like a blue barless. Had I not been told it was a genotype Milky, I doubt I would have given it a second look. I have seen T-check that carries Milky in the air that rolls 30ft with decent quality. Again, if they are standard colors, but carrying color factors, do they qualify as participants in a "rare-color" kit?
Creams and silvers-these are not rare colors at all and are fairly common in any "pure" family of rollers that carries dilute.
Crests, Grouse legged/boots, web toes, all come from the old line roller families and have little effect on performance. I see a few booted birds in the "rare-colored" families; probably in about the same or less perentages as the "pure" families. I have one, a booted blue lace that I got from Joe Bob; 30-40 ft. with excellent speed, quality, and work rate according to him. I'll take the word of the current World Champ. I think he knows performance when he sees it. (She's in the stock loft.)
There are many factors that make up a good roller. While it is easy for us to see color, it is hard for us to see what makes a better roller. Often times we tend to generalize that a certain color performs better over another color, but that statement only pertains to that particular family of rollers, rregardless of what family it is.
You see, with most all of these factors, you will get a few that are text book expressions of a certain factor; many will be easy to mis-identify because they look like standard colors; and some will be standard colors that carry the rare-color factor. So we must first define what you mean in your question, and which birds qualify. To field 20 birds all showing text book expression of any rare color factor would be a large undertaking and require that we breed for color, which most of don't do, contrary to the popular belief among the "purists". To those of us breeding these families of rollers, it's a moot point. We breed for prformance, not color, just like you. What ever qualifies for the A-kit gets in. Color is not the issue; except in the mind of the "purist".
The perfomance breeder of today has many choices of what family of birds he wishes to invest his time in. The best advice I have is for you to go see what the "Master Flyers", and the guys winning the comps aound you are flying. That's what I did. Start your roller journey there and enjoy the experience, the fellowship and the birds. That's what I do.
Hope this helps.
Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Feb 09, 2006 3:03 PM
|
Velo99
213 posts
Feb 09, 2006
3:47 PM
|
Thats a loaded question I ain`t gonna touch with a ten foot pole.
|
wizard
8 posts
Feb 09, 2006
4:07 PM
|
boy that was a loaded novel...........
for a weird question.........
wizard
ps..it would probably take you a life time....to get a kit
Last Edited by wizard on Feb 09, 2006 4:08 PM
|
J_Star
231 posts
Feb 09, 2006
5:31 PM
|
Cliff, good post.
Jay
|
motherlodelofts
592 posts
Feb 09, 2006
5:55 PM
|
George as far as my loft goes where I breed strickly for performance with no other setbacks such as carrying about what color they are I would say it takes about 2-3 years to field an A team that can compete on the top, that is with a proven stock loft and I breed bout 90 a year.
You take hawk losses over flys ect. it is easy to get set back, this year I am set back due to the problems above plus I have put some cream in the stock loft , easy it aint.
Scott
|
Alohazona
114 posts
Feb 13, 2006
9:58 PM
|
Scott,
I have had overfly problems plagueing me so far this year.Luckily,the champs have made it back.Should I take that as a hint and stock them before this happens again??What's your take on the main ingridient that causes an overfly??...Aloha,Todd
Last Edited by Alohazona on Feb 13, 2006 10:00 PM
|
motherlodelofts
596 posts
Feb 13, 2006
10:12 PM
|
Todd for me nine times out of ten it is operator error , if your gut tells you not a good idea don't spit em out.
Being sucked up against the Sierras here can get real weird up above , I can sure see where it could be a problem there also.
I had a problem early Fall and didn't see it coming , this last one was just stupidity on my part , I have learned to read conditions pretty good but at times I do something stupid and pay the piper.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Feb 13, 2006 10:15 PM
|
Post a Message
|
|
|
