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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
four generations
four generations
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
2008 posts
Aug 29, 2010
4:08 PM
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Hey all, Here are four generations of Ruby-Hale's all of the pictures were taken today except for the first. They need a bath but I have been covered by a cooper and locked down. So please excuse their dirty look. I will start with 07 through 10, and then with 09 and 10 with a change in color, the last is this years young hen and I include her to emphise they are all alike except for size difference from a cock to a hen.
07 young cock
08 young cock
09 young cock
10 young cock
10 young cock
08 cock
09 cock
10 young hen
Take care my friends
Thom
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toughrollers
322 posts
Aug 29, 2010
4:14 PM
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Hi Thom, you have very nice looking birds wish you lots of luck with them.
Ralph
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
2009 posts
Aug 29, 2010
5:07 PM
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Hey Ralph, How are you my friend? Each picture is father to son. This years crop are fulfilling all of my dreams and expectations. My point is that after four generations of line/in-breeding, if you overlook color, they are all the same. Which in my mind is the only way to build consistency in a kit.
Take care my friend
Thom
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donnie james
1149 posts
Aug 29, 2010
5:29 PM
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hay thom,
very nice looking birds and i want to wish you all the best with them
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Donny James
"Fly The Best And Cull The Rest"
"Saying One Thing;Doing Its Another"
"Keep Your Head Planted In The Sky And Wings Spanned Wide"
1996 Piedmont Roller Club Lifetime Achievement Recipient
Portsmouth Roller Club Participation Award System Recipient 1994 '96 '97 And 2000
2001 Limestone,Ohio Sportsman's Club Lifetime Member Recipient
2002Portsmouth Roller Club Certified Judge
2004Portsmouth Roller Club Lifetime Member Recipient
"Miss Portsmouth"NBRC/90/J311 Rusty Dun Check Self Hen First Bird To Get Certified In Portsmouth Roller Club History With A Score Of 53 Judge By Joe Roe The 1993 World Cup Winner And John Bender The 1994 World Cup Winner
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TimP
215 posts
Aug 31, 2010
12:23 PM
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Hey Thom, give us an update or refresher on how your linebreeding has evolved from your original birds? Thanks in advance TimP!
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
2010 posts
Aug 31, 2010
1:37 PM
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Hey Tim, I would be glad to but for all who are bored, please forgive.
Tim, I started with two pair of young birds from Tony. I bred from them and flew out their young. At the end of the season I was very happy with the young birds from one pair in particular, so I asked Tony to raise another pair from the same linage for me. I culled everything except the young from this original pair. (my foundation) In the next breeding season I bred from the original cock and hen, plus the hen from the related pair Tony bred for me. I never used the second cock but sent it to my brother to augment his program. From these three birds, every bird I have are descended.
I use a bastardized version of line/in-breeding. From my start, I bred father and daughter, with each generation becoming better, faster, deeper. By bastardized, I mean it does not follow the line/in-breeding chart to it's conclusion which in my mind only maintains a line, not improve it. I breed father/daughter, mother/son (second generation), grandfather/grand daughter(third generation) and in the the forth generation, great/grand daughter/to the original cock and the same for the hen. It never goes any deeper then that. At that time I reset my program choosing the very best from the four generations and pairing them as my foundation. Then, I repeat. All of the birds are genetically connected but none are exactly alike, a very fine hair to split but enough, I think (hope), in the event of the need for an in cross, I carry a seperate line from the second hen and the original cock. I started with good birds that were as Tony advertised, good kitting, tight high wing spinners, with velocity and style.
Now I have, good to better kiting, (I still must cull and retain by selection) slightly deeper and faster spinners, with improved style, (admittedly, not by much), with the occasional outstanding bird who is a blur. By blur, I mean fast, hard spinning with almost no wing showing, they just make your heart skip a beat. The down side is the rare bird that is dangerous and has a tendency to go splat! But they don't live very long because when they hit, it's full tilt bozo, no survivors.
I am not encouraging anyone to repeat my program. It takes a dedication to the long term program and a willingness to do the necessary culling. I keep only the very best as breeders and they are rare. I am in my fifth year and have six birds I consider breeders. Every other bird is a foster or kit bird.
I want to add that any program without selection will fail. I use a modified line/in-breeding program but it is always tempered with selection.
Take care my friends
Thom
Last Edited by on Aug 31, 2010 2:32 PM
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TimP
216 posts
Aug 31, 2010
3:56 PM
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Thom, that's exactly what I was looking for! I love reading about differn't forms of inbreeding/linebreeding, plus this is exactly the type of post new/young fanciers need to read and understand. Like you said it doesn't follow the linebreeding chart to T but all us can take notes on a slighty varied version.
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Raul Carreiro
102 posts
Aug 31, 2010
4:51 PM
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Hi Thom great looking birds! And a sensible way of maintaining a line, I to will be breeding mine next season in a similar way.
Regards,
Raul.
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
2013 posts
Aug 31, 2010
5:08 PM
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Hey all, for clarity:
The first year:
Original cock Original Hen
Second year:
Original Cock and Best Young Hen
Original Hen and Best young Cock
Third year:
Original Cock and the second best of the 3rd generation young hens.
Original Hen and the 2nd Best of the 3rd Generation young cocks
Best Young Cock and Best Young Hen of the 3rd Generation
Fourth Year:
The best of all generations, regardless of relationship.
New foundation: Best cock and Best Hen and the cycle repeats, infinite.
Take care my friends.
Thom
Last Edited by on Aug 31, 2010 5:10 PM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
2014 posts
Aug 31, 2010
5:21 PM
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TimP, Raul, I think most will lack patience and try for the quick fix. The point of all of this, my birds all look alike, feel alike, respond alike. Any changes in feed or routine and all of the kits respond the same. I can adjust kit flying times, the height they fly and their activity across the board, with confidence. If I screw up, they all screw up but if it's right, it's all right! :) The end result of line/in-breeding, peas in a pod.
Take care my friends
Thom
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