Raul Carreiro
37 posts
Jun 26, 2010
5:09 AM
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Hi All, How many here on this forum have physically witnessed a kit perform a full turn and how often? By this question I don't mean "I heard so and so's birds did a full turn" I am not trying to being sarcastic just curious!
Raul.
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2010 5:30 AM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
872 posts
Jun 26, 2010
6:43 AM
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Raul....How about pic's of your setup and birds if you could.(-: JDA
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4110 posts
Jun 26, 2010
7:03 AM
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Hey Raul, I have three times seen full proper turns from my Ruby family where the entire kit did break together and drop for some distance. That's in 18 years. However, I have seen innumerable 1/2 turns and 3 /4 turns from mature Ruby kits that were well managed (birds that were 2 years or older).
As the number of birds breaking together adds up in the critical moment (without being a waterfall), I feel the mathematical odds decreases exponentially of more joining the break. This is why I believe there are so few real full-turns reported.
Rick Mee once wrote an good article on "concert performance" where my "take-a-way" from the article was that the likelihood of high numbers of birds breaking together was more due to their close familial relationships resulting in a higher propensity that such birds would react (break) together in reaction to the same external stimuli. I tend to agree.
So it might be said that it is the breeding of a line of birds with the "juice" over a period of years expressing homozygous traits, where you will tend to see the larger breaks.
Now, just imagine if 1/4 turns were removed from competition, how this would impact scores and frequency. The desire for small and frequent breaks would succumb by necessity to a push for larger quality breaks.
As frequency was to give way to concert performance, I believe concert performance would increase by some degree and I think the Birmingham Roller breed would benefit most. The downside is as Cliff has mentioned in another thread is that interest in competition would wane with the higher standard and lower scores.
So from a club standpoint, I can see why the compromise of the higher standard was made in favor of more flyer participation. Better to have hundreds of participants with more quarter turns recorded than fewer participants with lowers scores but larger breaks. (Oops, did I just say that out loud?)
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
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Raul Carreiro
38 posts
Jun 26, 2010
7:16 AM
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Hi Jda, I am working on some pics for all to see my set up and birds. Tony thanks for your "positive" input to my post request! It must be an awesome site to behold a full turn!.
Regards,
Raul.
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2010 7:21 AM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1866 posts
Jun 26, 2010
8:05 AM
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Must be something wrong with my hearing! :)
Thom
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Raul Carreiro
40 posts
Jun 26, 2010
8:47 AM
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Hey Thom, Testing, Testing did you here that? There,s nothing wrong with your hearing It just proves you being honest LOL!
Raul.
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JMUrbon
1060 posts
Jun 26, 2010
8:49 AM
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Although I have seen all birds in a break attemptingh to do something. I have never witnessed what I would consider a full turn. That means all birds doing it correctly and that is not only hard to imagine seing but it is also very difficult to visualize. To physically see 20 birds all rolling correctly for a good scorable depth as asking alot of anybodies eyes so when and if we do see one it may not be considered one to the guy standing next to you. Its always a sight to see even 10 birds go together and do it correctly. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4362 posts
Jun 26, 2010
2:28 PM
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I don't consider anything a fullturn that is not witnessed by another flier who agrees. To look at twenty birds and make a decision that each bird made a scoreable roll simontaniously with all the other birds may not be impossible, but it is probably improbable, probably.
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Think Outside The Box
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Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2010 2:31 PM
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gotspin7
2681 posts
Jun 26, 2010
3:28 PM
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Raul, I can only say I have seen it twice, the only reason why I only give credit to the two is that the had (the separate kits) clean separation on the breaks. The roll was easier to view. The only problem with this is, that it was not at my house...LOL... Keep pushing forward you will get there, Good luck!
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Salvador Ortiz
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Raul Carreiro
43 posts
Jun 26, 2010
4:10 PM
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Hi Salvador,(The only problem with this is, that it was not at my house...LOL.)Its great to see that you can laugh and I am laughing with you not at you! These birds where developed to be acrobats in the shy for our own amusement before there ever was any world cup comps! I am not throwing stones at any one who does compete for it takes dedication and perseverance to compete and my hat is off to those that do! Yes I will keep pushing forward. My burden has already been lightened by acquiring some good stock to work with from Tony and with a little luck I may one day observe a full turn!
Take care,
Raul.
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
876 posts
Jun 26, 2010
4:15 PM
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Neck... How about the whole Boise flying roller club?Would that work??JDA
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donnie james
1045 posts
Jun 26, 2010
4:48 PM
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hay raul,
i seen 1 full turn in my life it was a friend of mine and his name was bobby neagle and it was at the ohio tri club fly and the judge was to busy talking with everyone and he miss it and it really pissed of bobby as well as a few of us but what can do about it?????? and bobby 3rd that year in the ohio tri club fly if i remember right there was 15 fliers that year
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Donny James
"Fly The Best And Cull The Rest"
"Saying One Thing;Doing Its Another"
"Keep Your Head Planted In The Sky And Wings Spanned Wide"
1996 Piedmont Roller Club Lifetime Achievement Recipient
Portsmouth Roller Club Participation Award System Recipient 1994 '96 '97 And 2000
2001 Limestone,Ohio Sportsman's Club Lifetime Member Recipient
2002Portsmouth Roller Club Certified Judge
2004Portsmouth Roller Club Lifetime Member Recipient
"Miss Portsmouth"NBRC/90/J311 Rusty Dun Check Self Hen First Bird To Get Certified In Portsmouth Roller Club History With A Score Of 53 Judge By Joe Roe The 1993 World Cup Winner And John Bender The 1994 World Cup Winner
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Raul Carreiro
44 posts
Jun 26, 2010
6:08 PM
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Hi Donnie, If anyone on this forum is qualified enough to give any advice it surely is not me! But I have had enough experience with myself in this hobby to boldly say this! This is and always will be an never ending battle!
Regards,
Raul
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kcfirl
656 posts
Jun 26, 2010
6:59 PM
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i have not seen it.
ken
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michael salus
246 posts
Jun 26, 2010
8:31 PM
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I see them all the time... in my dreams..lol
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MJ "Peace"
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wishiwon2
339 posts
Jun 27, 2010
3:59 PM
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I believe I have seen 1 once in 10 years. I posted about it here. I have seen a handful of times where all the birds in the kit did something, but only once where I truly think they all rolled with scorable quality and depth.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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donnie james
1047 posts
Jun 27, 2010
7:51 PM
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hay raul,
i'm not qualified to judge any body but the judge should of be looking up at the birds not at everyone else and that's what paid him to do to judge the birds and not to talk to everyone while the birds are flying
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Donny James
"Fly The Best And Cull The Rest"
"Saying One Thing;Doing Its Another"
"Keep Your Head Planted In The Sky And Wings Spanned Wide"
1996 Piedmont Roller Club Lifetime Achievement Recipient
Portsmouth Roller Club Participation Award System Recipient 1994 '96 '97 And 2000
2001 Limestone,Ohio Sportsman's Club Lifetime Member Recipient
2002Portsmouth Roller Club Certified Judge
2004Portsmouth Roller Club Lifetime Member Recipient
"Miss Portsmouth"NBRC/90/J311 Rusty Dun Check Self Hen First Bird To Get Certified In Portsmouth Roller Club History With A Score Of 53 Judge By Joe Roe The 1993 World Cup Winner And John Bender The 1994 World Cup Winner
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4125 posts
Jun 28, 2010
10:25 AM
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Hey Carl, I see 0 full turns (did I miss something?). What are we to make of that?
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4363 posts
Jun 28, 2010
11:00 AM
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JDA - you need to write that down and publish it with all the witness signing off on it. Title could be "Fullturn Witnessed" to draw attention to it. It is truly rare!
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Think Outside The Box
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Nick Siders
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Scott
3103 posts
Jun 28, 2010
7:16 PM
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Good point Carl.. not in the history of the World Cup which without a doubt show cases the best there are has there been a full turn recorded.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4364 posts
Jun 28, 2010
7:35 PM
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Has there ever been a fullturn in the NBRC competition?
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Think Outside The Box
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Nick Siders
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BA Rollers
347 posts
Jun 28, 2010
7:44 PM
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There never will be one recorded in the WC or FF. No judge has the balls to do it even if it was the most legit anyone has ever seen.
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turkey buzzard
150 posts
Jun 29, 2010
5:40 AM
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BA ROllers I will be your Huckleberry, I would call it and have no problems doing it!! If the WC and Fall fly you have the premier fliers with premier judges from around the world and as Scott Cambell said if it was a common or a freak of nature why wouldn't you call it!!
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Scott
3104 posts
Jun 29, 2010
8:22 AM
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I would give it if it was deserved ..
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4365 posts
Jun 29, 2010
8:45 AM
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I agree with Brian. It would take a judge with great big balls to call a fullturn in these major competitions and I don't see it happening. The so called "bar raiser" judges will be the last to even consider it.
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Think Outside The Box
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Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2010 8:47 AM
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Scott
3105 posts
Jun 29, 2010
9:16 AM
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What is a "so called bar raiser Nick" ? that is a term that you have been throwing out that I have never heard of.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4366 posts
Jun 29, 2010
9:41 AM
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There are judges that proclaim thier type of judging is to raise the bar.....they are our bar raisers (self proclaimed, of course)
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Think Outside The Box
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Nick Siders
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Scott
3106 posts
Jun 29, 2010
9:49 AM
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Never heard of this Nick .. I do know that there are those that score culls and all .. and then there are those that look to score only those doing it correctly.. these must be what you are talking about as some have a problem with this.. in fact some are even trying to force judges to score anything and everything including culls such as axel wingers and even birds that come out of the roll sloppy... hard to imagine but it's true... no wonder we are getting waxxed.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2010 9:55 AM
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155
1221 posts
Jun 29, 2010
10:02 AM
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what is a cull in your eyes mr scott?
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~ Jose Jimenez Aka Evilloft ~
Compton ca ,Mesa Az
.Going all Higgins this Year.
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4367 posts
Jun 29, 2010
12:30 PM
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Scott - we are getting waxed because the "bar raisers" have let us down................maybe.
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Think Outside The Box
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Nick Siders
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spanky
919 posts
Jun 29, 2010
3:33 PM
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THE BIGEST BREAK I SEEN WAS A 18 BIRD BREAK ALL BIRDS GOING LIKE 50 TO 80 FT WITH THE BEST QUALITY I SEEN AT ABEL IBARRA HOUSE
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winwardrollers
500 posts
Jun 29, 2010
6:18 PM
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LOL..thanks for the chuckle... Spanky....that's raising the bar.
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2010 6:26 PM
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orx300
9 posts
Jun 30, 2010
12:56 AM
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i think if people spent more time in their lofts and less time on pigeon forums blaming others for their below average loft management then maybe people might have half a chance of understanding whats required to score some comp points on a world scale that are
credible
Regards Nick
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155
1223 posts
Jun 30, 2010
3:34 PM
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right on orx300..
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~ Jose Jimenez Aka Evilloft ~
Compton ca ,Mesa Az
.Going all Higgins this Year.
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