George R.
274 posts
Jan 25, 2010
5:57 PM
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Cliff
Is the Turner birds you main Family of Birds ? how many other family's of Birds do you fly ?
The Reason I am asking is I am courious what Family of Birds you are concentrating on , and do you house the different strains ( if you have diffrent strains) seperatly or all mixed up in the same breeder Loft?
Also which family of Birds do you think you will circle the wagons around and why??
how are the Bill c. and Scott C. birds working out for You ??
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2010 6:01 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3865 posts
Jan 25, 2010
6:07 PM
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you have the right to remain silent...
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Your Own Custom Telephone # Bands
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wa1tmaster
GOLD MEMBER
41 posts
Jan 25, 2010
6:33 PM
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Courious George is at it again.
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until next time.
THANKS,
WALTER PORCH
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ron
91 posts
Jan 26, 2010
5:38 AM
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If you choose not to,everything you say will be used against you. on this forum...........LOL
R.Luna/HDRC
LUNA'S LOFT
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2349 posts
Jan 26, 2010
6:46 AM
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Hehehehehe...you guys are funny! But I see that nobody has pulled the wool over your eyes! Well, you know me well enough by now...so here goes. Let's see if this is legit!
George,
The family of rollers that I breed and fly in competition is the James Turner family of rollers, mostly from Jay Yandle, but some directly from James. I have been doing so for five years and have been linebreeding and inbreeding my best lines tightly, continuing what Jay Yandle and James started back in the late 1980s and beyond. I have seen birds all around the country, and have not seen anything that I like any better, as far as the type of performance in a roller that I prefer to work with.
I have seen the Danny Horner family of Jaconette's very intimately, since my brother Chuck lived with me for two years and bred and flew DH Jaconettes exclusively. So I did not have to bred thme to evaluate them. I was able to see first-hand, what I needed to know. I have bred a few of Clay Hoyle's Jaconettes a few years ago, but have not kept anything. I also obtained a few pair of Rick Schoening's birds and bred them for one year, so far... flew and trained them, two of which are flying in my comp team. I tried flying them separate and together with my Turners and got the best results when flown WITH my family. I also got a pair of Jay Starley birds from Joe Bob Stuka and have bred them for two years. I have produced a few decent Starley birds, and after seeing what I wanted, I have given them way. I am flying out the '09 birds and intend to give them to some guys on this list who like to work with them, after I am through working with them.
The Kiser-Borges birds that I obtained in the NBRC convention auction have been flown for 7 months. Two have been culled for tree-sitting and non-kitting. One was an overfrequent bird that couldn't keep up with the kit, and culled when he started to have a negative impact on other birds in the kit. The others are not doing much yet. (Meanwhile, I have pulled several 20-ft. plus spinners of the same age (Turners) to move up to the '09 A-team.) But I'll keep flying them at least 12-14 months to see if anything developes. I have bred eight Campbell birds so far from one of the hens and they are currently in training (I fly all winter) being flown with my other birds. They kit well and fly with the kits just fine, and do not sky out...so far. I have communicated with Scott about his feeding program and will continue to do so as they are trained. I haven't decided for sure, but when I get 15-20 of them, I may fly them separate from the other families. I am getting ready to breed ten from the second Campbell hen.
The reasons why I am going through all this is for several reason. One is to gain experience working with different families of rollers, and to make me a better trainer, and to at least have a minimal basis for discussion about these families. Another is to see if the birds that I have seen perform in different geographical regions will duplicate these same patterns in a completely different geographical setting to determing whether some of the characteristeics of different families is genetically-determined or is environmental (geographical). And finally, it is to compare the performance of different families....apples to apples in the same kit. I try not to pass any particular judgement on any of these families of rollers in general, based on my experience with them....only on the particular pigeons that I am working with. I'll keep the list posted with my progress. I don't mind your asking, as long as it is legitimate.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2010 9:33 AM
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michael salus
123 posts
Jan 26, 2010
8:11 AM
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Good response Cliff, now we'll see what happens...lol. I'm doing the same thing with 3 families and we'll see what happens. I will narrow this down to 2 or maybe even 1, we'll see. By time I move in a year or 2 I should know exactly where I am going. I will defiantly keep the Ouellette's, great family in every way and have had them for some time.
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MJ
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2350 posts
Jan 26, 2010
9:21 AM
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Mike,
At the Sacremento convention, Don Oulette told me to contact him if I wanted a few birds off his almond family...but I just have too many going on right now. What cockbird did you put on 805?
Cliff
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siddiqir
305 posts
Jan 26, 2010
10:06 AM
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Hello Cliff, can you tlak more on Danny Horner family of Jaconette's (e.g speed, velocity, kittng)
Also, do you know if Bobby Bradley rollers are from Danny Jaconette's family. Thanks, -Rauf
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michael salus
124 posts
Jan 26, 2010
10:46 AM
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Cliff, Last year I had her on 397 cock. I haven't figured out who to put her on this year, I put my birds together the 1st of march... it's still winter up here..lol. 10 below tonight. I only got two young off of her last year and both were taken by the falcon.
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MJ
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2351 posts
Jan 26, 2010
11:15 AM
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Rauf,
Your'e really asking me to stick my head in the mouth of the lion, aren't you! LOL! I think the Horner's are great for new guys in the sport or the casual hobbyist, because they are fairly problem-free. They are typey little birds, they kit very well, fly slowly, and have a fabulous slow wing-beat that is inherent to the almost the entire family.. There is a lot of spin and depth in the family; frequently more than the birds can handle, possibly because of their small size and slighter build. Like any family, they have their own unique problems...skying out....lower percentages of really fast birds....higher percentages of birds in which you can count the individual rolls, and mainly x-wing position performers; high and low. But every family has their good birds and their problem birds. I'm sure there are lines of DH birds out there that have been selected out for many years (and are this no longer Danny Horner Jaconettes) that are smokin'. And I am equally certain that there are kits of them out there that crash when released, and proably many that fly around in circles and roll six feet. It's a matter of percentages and proper selection of individuals that are doing it right, as well as the committment of the breeder/flyer to produce quality performance.
The Bobby Bradley birds, I believe, are more old-line Jaconettes that he obtained from Ellis MacDonald, but I could be wrong about that. They are not the Danny Horner line of Jaconettes, though. Hope this helps Rauf. Remember, it's only my opinion based on my experience with the birds and no disrespect to Danny who has spent his life putting lots of spin into this family and producing large numbers of them.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2010 12:01 PM
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J_Star
2240 posts
Jan 26, 2010
1:19 PM
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Nice to hear from you Rauf,
Skying out can be mitigated with feed. Cut down on Milo. X wingers, I don't have them. Short when the start and they get better and deeper as they mature. The more you fly them the better they get. Good percentage of fast spin and depth. If you keep the birds locked up for more than 3 days before release due to rain, hawks, or to underfeeding them while they are locked up, on occasions some of the hot birds (usually one or two) will crash when released but up with the rest in one second. Those ones you can cull if you don't desire them or use them as your trigger birds because they are easily excited. Like Cliff said, they have their problems like other families but with proper selection and feeding, the breed can be mitigated and managed to compete with the rest.
Jay
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2353 posts
Jan 26, 2010
1:41 PM
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Thanks for your input Jay! You have had a great deal more experience than I have had with them. There you have it Rauf!
Cliff
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smeyer02
31 posts
Jan 26, 2010
4:20 PM
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I would not touch this one for Love or Money.
Steve
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George R.
279 posts
Jan 26, 2010
6:48 PM
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Cliff I am courious How did you make your observations of the Horners were they made when Chuck lived in the apartment upstairs to you?
The reason I ask is I have been Flying Dannys Birds for a few years now and I have never had a problem whith them going Sky high or they dont roll down coming out of the kIt Box. as far as slow Rollers well I dont have that problem either .
anyway I am not argueing with you I am just wondering if you ever flew any of Danny's Birds yourself ?
You might want to get some from him and try them they are some nice Birds , I believe you would really like them .
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Ty Coleman
847 posts
Jan 26, 2010
7:31 PM
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George, I have seen several kits of them also and I think Cliffs observation is accurate to what I have seen also. Chuck carried me to Danny's once and we watched some of his kits. He flew 2 birds that day that I was tempted to buy, when I asked him about the birds they were nest mates. I would have loved to owned the pair that produced them, they were as good as my best birds in my kit and realy stood out from the others that were flown that day. Danny is a great guy and has good birds, but looking at birds is like buying cars. Some of us like V8 Mustangs with pipes while others prefer a nice smooth Impala with 20's. There is nothing wrong with either.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2010 7:33 PM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2355 posts
Jan 27, 2010
5:18 AM
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George,
Chuck and I lived in the same suite for a couple years when I was comuting to the coast where I practiced, and eventually he moved to the upstairs suite, and I left the coast to stay in the Greensboro area full time. He was taking care of my birds for me during that time I commuted, and I couldn't have done it (stayed in the hobby)without him. I came home on the weekends and flew my birds, banded squabs, and spent time with my daughter. Eventually he built some kit boxes and got some birds from Danny and started working with his own birds, too. We trained and flew our birds together for a couple years, which is the experience from which I base my conclusions. As I said, the only other Jaconetttes that I have worked with personally are Clay Hoyle's. Like Ty said, there are differences between families. It doesn't mean any one family is better than any other. It depends on your cup of tea. I don't doubt that if I had decided to fly Danny's birds that they would do fine....just as they are for many other flyers.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2010 5:22 AM
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George R.
280 posts
Jan 27, 2010
6:46 AM
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Thanks Cliff
ohh by the way where did Clays Jacs come from ?
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2010 6:47 AM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2357 posts
Jan 27, 2010
8:54 AM
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George,
Danny Horner, I believe, but Clay has a lot of birds from many families. If you are curious you can give him a call or e-mail him.
Cliff
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siddiqir
306 posts
Jan 27, 2010
12:01 PM
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Thanks Cliff and Jay. I was out of the hobby for past two years. I am planning to come back. I got few birds from Bobby Bradly, bred and flown youngsters, they have done good. I liked thier depth and kitting. I am planning to get Danny's rollers as I think Bobby Bradley family is from same line.
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2010 12:02 PM
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
608 posts
Jan 27, 2010
3:22 PM
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Cliff/George,
The Jaconettes that Clay sent me last summer had both Danny Horner and Bobby Bradley birds behind them.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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George R.
281 posts
Jan 27, 2010
7:25 PM
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If you want Birds that CANT fly in the heat dont get Danny Horner Birds.
if you want Birds that dont kit DONT get Danny Horner Birds.
if you want Birds that are HUGE and dont have nice type, dont get Danny Horner Birds.
if you want Birds that Dont Spin 30ft to 40 Ft , Dont get Danny Horner Birds.
If you want Birds that you have to make Roll by starving them DONT get Danny Horner Birds.
if you want Birds that like to corkscrew into the Ground DONT get Danny Horner Birds.
I have flown many Strains of Birmingham Rollers and so far Danny Birds are the easiest to fly and ENJOY.
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2010 7:32 PM
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birdman
786 posts
Jan 27, 2010
7:34 PM
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George,
Why don't you like the Horner birds? LOL LOL
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2473 posts
Jun 25, 2010
7:10 AM
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We just started the 2010 NBRC North Carolina Regionals with Chuck being the first out of the chute to be judged (by Eldon Cheney). I have to say that this is the best kit of Jacs that I have seen to date! Chuck got a break with the weather...temps dropped from 98 degrees to 78 degrees as a front moved through just before he kicked them out. (Chuck said that he was expecting a DQ because his birds had not been flying the time in this heat wave.) He had the feed right....they didn't sky out like they are prone to do.....they were very active and their speed and quality was excellent, earnining him 150 points with a 1.5 Q and 1.3 D with a kit of mostly late-hatch 2009 birds. He was smart and left some of the deepest birds in the kitbox that had poorer quality and spent more time out of the kit. Good work, Chuck! Danny should be proud of you!
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jun 25, 2010 7:45 AM
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